The Watchtower denies that God is Omnipresent

by brotherdan 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • brotherdan

    Here is their twist on it...

    From the Rev Climax book:

    “I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.” (Revelation 21:2)

    New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ, made up of the anointed Christians who remain faithful to death and who are raised to become kings and priests with the glorified Jesus. (Revelation 3:12; 20:6) Just as earthly Jerusalem became the seat of government in ancient Israel, the magnificent New Jerusalem and her Bridegroom make up the government of the new system of things. This is the new heaven. The ‘bride comes down out of heaven,’ not literally, but in the sense of directing attention to the earth. The Lamb’s bride is to be his loyal helpmeet in operating a righteous government over all mankind. A blessing indeed for the new earth!

    4 John tells us further: “With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: ‘Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.’” (Revelation 21:3) When Jehovah made the Law covenant with the then new nation of Israel, he promised: “I shall certainly put my tabernacle in the midst of you, and my soul will not abhor you. And I shall indeed walk in the midst of you and prove myself your God, and you, on your part, will prove yourselves my people.” (Leviticus 26:11, 12) Now Jehovah is making a similar promise to faithful humans. During the thousand-year Judgment Day, they will become a very special people to him.

    5 During the Millennial Reign, Jehovah will “reside” among mankind in a temporary arrangement, he being represented by his royal Son, Jesus Christ. At the end of the Thousand Year Reign, however, when Jesus hands the Kingdom over to his Father, no royal representative or intercessor will be needed. Jehovah will reside spiritually with “his peoples” in a permanent and direct way. (Compare John 4:23, 24.) What a lofty privilege for restored humanity!

  • Ding

    I love how "coming down out of heaven" doesn't mean coming down out of heaven; it means turning one's attention from heaven to earth.

    By that logic, "Grandpa is coming down out of the attic" means, "Grandpa is staying in the attic but now he's paying attention to what we're doing down here."

    Doesn't the WTS teach that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 "in that he turned his attention to the affairs of the earth"?

    I'm sure I read that someone in WT publications.

    So will God himself reside on earth or not?

    During the millenial reign, Jehovah will "reside" among mankind -- note how the WT adds quotation marks to make "reside" symbolic -- not by residing among mankind but by sending a representative who is allegedly an invisible spirit creature to reside among mankind.

    Later, Jehovah will reside with his people "spiritually... in a permanent and direct way."

    How will Jehovah "reside" with his people spiritually in a way that he doesn't now?

    And is that different than the non-omnipresent God's dwelling place?

    If Jehovah having a "dwelling" means he is not omnipresent but has a fixed location, then will earth be his fixed residence or not?

    I'm sure glad we have the FDS organization to explain things to us!

    But whatever happened to the Pleiades?

    Does Jehovah still live there or not?

  • agonus

    According to them, practically everything that occurs in Revelation happens "in the sense that", well, nothing actually happens. But 144,000... Now that's clearly a literal number.

  • thetrueone

    Yes thats right they do say that , back in the 40's they said that he lived on a certain planet out in outer space.

    I'm not kidding, cant remember the name of the planet , perhaps someone else can remember.

    It either starts with a P or D

  • GLTirebiter

    thetrueone--look at the quote in Dan's post on page 1 of this thread, it's the star Alcyone in the constellation Pleiades

  • thetrueone

    Thanks GLTirebiter

    This comes from the same people who said its bad and evil to try and save a life with a blood transfusion.

    Makes one think doesn't it

  • brotherdan
    By that logic, "Grandpa is coming down out of the attic" means, "Grandpa is staying in the attic but now he's paying attention to what we're doing down here."

    How will Jehovah "reside" with his people spiritually in a way that he doesn't now?

    And THAT is why Ding is such a good resource for Christians! A great Christian thinker that has helped me beyond belief. I hope you know how much I love you, Ding!

  • Ding

    Thanks for the kind words, BD!

    It's amazing to me how plausible the WTS can sound as it bends the scriptures to say whatever they want them to mean:

    -- Jehovah having a "dwelling" is literal; it means he lives in a fixed location and therefore is not omnipresent

    Yet Jehovah "residing" on earth during the millenial kingdom is symbolic; it means he will be represented there by Christ

    -- The heavenly city comes down out of heaven prepared as a bride for her husband.

    Yet nothing really comes down from heaven. It just means that the bride of Christ in heaven will turn its attention to what's happening on earth

    Without any chapter and verse to back them up, they just baldly assert that something is so ("holy spirit is an impersonal, active force") and every reference in the Bible has to become symbolic in order to conform to their assertion (Holy Spirit's grieving, knowing the mind of God, being lied to, choosing Saul and Barnabas for their ministry, deciding who gets which spiritual gifts, etc.)

    Watch the WTS' use of quotation marks:

    -- The medium at Endor calls up Samuel and he/it becomes "Samuel," not the real Samuel

    Watch the WTS' use of "evidently," "certainly," and "reasonably, then" which covers up lack of actual Biblical support. Reasoning book, p. 219:

    -- "The name evidently designates Michael as the one who takes the lead in upholding Jehovah's sovereignty and destroying God's enemies."

    -- Evidently???

    Watch the WTS' use of disparaging phrases. Here's an example from p. 213 of the Reasoning book's comment on John 20:28:

    -- "There is no objection to referring to Jesus as 'God' if this is what Thomas had in mind."

    -- WHAT???

    -- IF this is what Thomas had in mind??? Doesn't "God's FDS organization" know what Thomas meant?

    It would make an interesting book to collect all sorts of stuff like this and show how the WTS plays its bibilcal shell game so effectively.

  • VM44

    If Jehovah's Holy Spirit is everywhere, then is The Holy Spirit Omnipresent?

    It would have to be if Jehovah knows everything that is happening in the universe!

  • wannabefree

    Of course Watchtower must deny the omnipresence of God.

    Dan quoted Matthew 18:20, this refers to Jesus, to say it means omnipresence for Jesus puts him on par with the Father, therefore, by necessity, this must be explained as the Spirit being the source of presence, and since the Father sends the Spirit out also in behalf of the Son, its a way of explaining away what appears to be a characteristic that only God would have that is also applied to Jesus.

    This would also apply to the ability to read the heart and kidneys, both abilities of the Father and the Son, if reasoned that it is possible by means of God's Spirit it clears up the equality issue, if Jesus is nothing more than the archangel Michael, he couldn't have characteristics applied only to God, bringing God's Spirit as the source into the equation allows for a logical explanation.

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