by Ranchette 42 Replies latest jw friends
KEWL Ranch,
I'm only saying, if you find yourself changing your words in order to 'spare' Mom's feelings, then it is a game.
As an adult you have a responsibility to let her know open and honestly HOW YOU FEEL. I got the impression you were avoiding conflict by not addressing certain issues.
(Whether or not she agrees with it is her call.)
Lisa
LDH,
Well,Okay I was avoiding conflict so I take it back.
According to what your saying I was playing a game.I was trying to spare her feelings as well as my own.
Believe it or not I have come out of my shell compared to what I used to be but dealing with mom is hard.
Probably because of the emotions involved.
Ranchette
OMG Ranchette! Your mom sounds exactly like my MIL. It's ALL about appearances with these types.
See, your grandparents have never cared for the JW beliefs. They probably resented your mom all their lives because they didn't have a relationship with you. And they probably looked forward to the day when YOU would leave the group.
So here the time comes and it really happens. They probably said something edging your mom on a little. You know, making a point. And that sets your mom off.
I think YOU are the one who doesn't need the stress. It's so sad that it's your mom. My MIL hasn't called my husband in over a year!
You take care of yourself and know that you did nothing wrong. Stay strong!
Marilyn, you hit the nail on the head girl!
Ranchette, you have my deepest sympathy at having to deal with such profound dishonesty, Orwellian blackwhite and doublethink from someone you still love....
Here is my advice for what it is worth... IT IS NOT ADVICE FOR THE SHORT TERM. IN THE SHORT TERM, IT WILL CERTAINLY MAKE THINGS WORSE. IN THE LONGER TERM, IT JUST MIGHT BE THE RIGHT THING TO HAVE DONE (but I do not know the people involved)..
Phone mom. No warning, obviously. Just like her call to you.
Remind her POINTEDLY that she strenuously objected to your grandparents being given the impression from you that your parents are minimizing contact with you, despite them asking direct questions on the subject.
Remind her POINTEDLY that in the same conversation she reiterated that she and dad wish to minimize contact with you.
Pause to let it sink in. Chuckle. Demonically, if you wish. However little you feel like chuckling.
Ask her if she knows she is coercing you into lying to your grandparents.
Ask her if she is a liar.
Ask her if she respects your grandparents, her elders.
Ask her if they are entitled to know the truth.
Ask her if her cult encourages lying (of course it does - five clear unambiguous references available: want them?).
Ask her if her "god" loves liars, or is it a liar too.
Before she puts the phone down, tell her you do not want your children to have contact with liars and with people as disgusting and despicable as she is. Tell her that to give her the benefit of the doubt, the wicked cult must have addled her brains and taken away her shame and honor, that she is now little but a Spiritual Whore to the Pimp of the Watchtower. And tell her that you are going to repeat all of this to your grandparents, and to your children, as soon as they are old enough to understand. Tell her you hate liars and hypocrites, and that she is... [and throw in anything else that is factual and for which you have evidential support, in the unlikely event that she gives you the chance to do so]
[btttttttttttt... phone dead]
It takes real guts to do this. And many here will probably say, stupidity and/or cruelty too. Not all here, though.
I maintain (subject to the caveat at the top) that it does not significantly worsen your position - being 97% shunned and 99% shunned is about the same.... What have you to lose?
Your righteous and justified anger will not be something she can forget. And perhaps, just perhaps, in one weak moment - exactly the sort of weak moment at which the Watchtower pounces on people - your words will come back and pounce upon your mother, and she may then think "What have I done?"
Of course, that day may well never come. But still this is the best way.
And don't hate her, as you know. Hate the monster that made her into the immoral subhuman that she arguably now is.
Don't let your kids get contaminated. She will lie through her teeth to "save" them, given the chance. Don't give her the chance. Any chance. Your duty is to protect them. Your duty to her is very secondary. She has demoted herself to three steps below the cat.
I may appear angry and incoherent. I am not. My rage is a cold, icy and probably venomous hatred of a most wicked and malevolent plague that moves from door to door announcing itself with a knock. I assure you it doesn't get any icier even in our Norwegian contributors.
Please do not entirely dismiss my harsh advice. I am interested in RESULTS. No, the end does not always justify the means. But here you are but giving her what her own waywardness and inhumanity has so richly begged for.
Proverbs 27:5: "Better is a revealed reproof than a concealed love."
She is the one who has apostatized herself from the creed of Basic Humanity and Decency, and surrendered herself to a LIE. Do not bid her farewell, for that would be a wish for her prosperity in her "apostate" course. The Watchtower, November 15 1952, page 703 says so, and even it sometimes gets a tiny bit right.
And doing so does NOT make you as bad as her. You are protecting your young children from her vile contagion.
STRIKE BACK TO WIN BACK YOUR OWN SELF ESTEEM AND/OR FEELING OF SELF-WORTH. DO IT TO "THEM". THEY HAVE HAD FEW QUALMS ABOUT DOING IT TO YOU... YOU HAVE DONE THE SEVENTY-TIMES SEVEN. AND THEY ARE THE MENTALLY-ILL, SPIRITUALLY-SYPHILITIC ONES - NOT YOU.
I apologize for speaking so directly to you. There is nothing personal here. This is my general advice to all in your position, where the JW family members go further than even the WT now commands, and there are kids involved who need to be shielded. It is a matter of priorities.
Don't forget to give your grandparents (a couple, I assume) a lot of love and reassurance. They are probably asking themselves (whichever of your parents is their child) "How did we go so wrong with [your parent]??" Explain to them all you now know of the Watchtower's ensnaring ways - factually and without anger. You are not trying to justify yourself, remember. YOU ARE TRYING TO CONSOLE THEM.
My affectionate regards and repeated sympathies, Ranchette. Make sure you raise your kids as damned good "apostates", mind!
--
Focus
(Taught to HATE by the PROFESSIONALS at hating! Class)
Ranchette,
Are you my long lost sister? I am so amazed at how many similar experieces we have with our mother's. I was told as a child how my grandparents did not care about us because they would not give us Christmas presents but they bought them for the other grandchildren. Of course my mother's stipulation on the presents was a few weeks after christmas, unwrapped and no mention at all that it was for this holiday. My grandparents had to play by my mom's rules and tip toe around the religion, but no way would my mom sway just a bit in her beliefs to accomodate them and their beleifs. She expected, and still expects them to cater to her and her wacky ways.
I agree with so many others here, get in touch with your non JW family. They too have suffered a loss of family because of this religion, and need to hear a bit of truth now. I was so lucky to have gotten to know my grandmother even if it was for a few short years. She was able to help me ALOT with my exodus.
This religion is not normal, they are not normal feeling people here. Their emotions are skin deep and their shallowness hurts those around them. For years you were "trained" to hide your emotions so as not to bring reproach on jah, but guess what? It still boils down to telling a lie. I agreee with Focus, call her on it. She is living a lie, dresing it up so it sounds nice, but it is still a lie.
My heart goes out to you, and your kids.((((hugs))))
Marilyn You ROCK!!!
wendy
Hi Ranchette,
Isn't this a great place to be able to discuss this kind of thing? No one else would be able to know what you're going through.
There have been great ideas on this.
Two things occurred to me:
1. Your parents have chosen certain actions. They deserve to have the consequences.
2. It seems certain ideas of co-dependency might apply to you. You may be enabling them to carry our their behavior in secrecy; rescuing or shielding them from the consequences of their actions, by not being straightforward with your grandparents.
And your mother is, of course, angry with you because she doesn't want her mother's disapproval. Ha! According to your mother, you should take your banishment and then keep it secret. She knows how bad it looks.
The way i see it, the pieces should fall where they may and it never does any good to rescue someone from their own bad actions.
For what it's worth,
Pat
"It's easier to put on slippers than to carpet the world." (from "Stuart Saves His Family")
mommy wrote:
I agree with Focus
mommy, I knew you would.
And I do know how to love, too - strange though this might appear to the Ballerina Class here who seem riled by our very existence!
There is a time for showing love and a time for showing OUTRAGE. And OUTRAGE it is that the disgusting, deceitful, hypocritical conduct of your parents merits, Ranchette.
They are already abashed at their actions, perhaps fearful it may cost them an inheritance... so, why not indulge their worst fears. Ask your grandparents if they want such assets they bequeath ending up in the Watchtower's so-deserving coffers?
And try and see the bright side. Their world is a wicked, evil system of things ruled by Satan but with a mad killer "gawd" who is about to swoop down any minute leaving over six billion corpses littering the planet. Your world, while not perfect, lacks both these imaginary characters. Enjoy the sunshine, and LET THE SHADOW CLASS FALL BEHIND YOU.
--
Focus
(Righteous Requirements Class)
Focus,
Thanks for your ideas.
I am very intrigued by you suggested approach. I plan to study it closer and see if I can find a way to make it mine.
I wonder what you think of me writing a letter with these questions with my comments to her possible answers?
I had already been considering confronting her on this again through a letter because of the comments from other posters so far.
I'm thinking I could get the point across without upsetting myself unduly through a letter.
Plus I could share it with you and the results.
Ranchette
****************************She's just upset because she has been being dishonest and misleading her parents while I tell them how it really is.************************
BINGO!!
Ranchette,
"To thine own self be true" Don't allow your Mom to manipulate you.
"The truth shall set you free" (no JW connection intended) Keep Telling it like it "really" is. You have no reason to question yourself on anything you have said to your Grandparents. I've never had regrets about telling the truth (even though it was difficult and had consequences sometimes) I do regret lies I've told and some covering up I've done.
Its only natural for a child (no matter how old they get) to want the approval of their parents and it must hurt so badly when your Mom treats you like this. I'm sorry you've had to go through this. My Mom was a devout JW but she dearly loved all her children and was kind to all of them. Even the non-JW ones. I'm grateful for that.
Strengthen your bond with your Grandparents. Why don't you call them? They have suffered too, I'm sure.
just my II
Sunny
