by proplog2 57 Replies latest jw friends
I have been accused of being unfeeling because I suggest a rational approach to healing the wounds of abuse. I am not expressing idiosyncratic ideas. They are not Pop psychology. No one can get a degree in social work or psychological counseling without being exposed to Albert Ellis' work.
I don't have to defend him.
Chances are - if you go in for professional counseling you will be getting a heavy dose of Rational Emotive & Cognitive Therapy.
Howdy again, Proplog,
DNA evidence. Sperm Samples. Physical examination. This is hard evidence. A 25 year old woman recalling something that happened to her when she was 10 is soft evidence. -plogGood point for going to the police and court. But how do elders approach DNA/sperm/physical evidence? They don't - it's not their job. But it is their job to help their congregation as much as possible - and other religious groups have contended with this problem, and come up with guidelines which addresses the issue of a molester around children and the safety of children.
Maximus posted one such church"s definitive outline when he was here.
As for doing DNA/sperm/phyisical examinations here? It's a police/court issue. SilentLambs site is a victims/survivor place - no one's going to court with that type of evidence, or lack thereof. It's Speaking Out about the WTBTS problem - which they want to keep silent. Any average policeman or attorney would tell the victim that a case is difficult without hard evidence - but cases have been made on the victims' account - especially when there's 10,20,100 victims speaking in unison - with details. And the cases won - note the Catholic Church paying out one billion dollars so far.
The money issue? It's a pretty well recognized issue that corporations don't change unless there's money involved. Sexual harrassment is a good example.
As for false accusations? Yes, it does occur - innocently or purposely. Molestation & rape are always on purpose. I agree, care should be taken - that's why the police are there - to investigate.
Can innocent people get hurt? Absolutely. Are innocent children being raped? Absolutely. Within those two correct statements, a balance has to be found......child by child. A damnable situation.
waiting
Proplog2 said from underneath the dogpile of people who jumped on him:
I have been accused of being unfeeling because I suggest a rational approach to healing the wounds of abuse.Dude we all want to have a rational approach to the child abuse issue in the JW world. Nobody wants to ruin any innocent lives. The problem here is that you screwed up things so badly by starting your post in such a negative way, you could be Jesus F. Christ and everyone would still be kicking your ass. I suggest that if you feel that there is something that isn't quite right in the way things are being handled you bring up the subject in at least a neutral way without pressing everyone's emotional buttons. If you know anything at all about psychology, you should know this is an emotionally hot topic and you handled it very badly by pushing emotional buttons hard. The result of which is what you seen.
Be tactful, considerate, optimistic, and friendly when introducing an idea that seems to run counter to the crowd...unless you enjoy being pounded on. Not that I'm perfect either and I manage to blow it now and then. This isn't a personal attack it is just some kind advice.
Kind Regards,
Skipper
I tried real hard to read each and every post, and do so with an open mind...I find it way too easy to become emotional about silent lambs. I go to work everyday and see the results of sexual predators - I work in a social services agency specifically funded to treat victims of sexual assault. The devastation to people (men and women) does not go away with politically correct phraseology ("should not have happened" v "it would have been better if"). The scars are deep. I personally do not believe strongly in repressed memory stuff but I do believe victims have vivid pictures of what they think is repressed memories to compensate for their personal (but wrong) view that they are somehow at guilt for their sexual assault. The mind, in it's attempt to survive does incredible things.
JW victims cannot utilize the criminal justice system, DNA testing,etc. because 1) they are strongly discouraged from reporting or going to the hospital for testing when the accused is a fellow witness; 2) children are often not believed (no two witnesses) 3) how do you test for DNA when the abuse is not discovered until the victim is an adult? 4) the victim is obligated to forgive if the offender says they are sorry.
I do understand the concern many have of being falsely accused and the damage to a person's reputation. There are people with personality disorders who would not think twice about making accusations falsely. However, it is rare. And if you are a "good" JW you won't be putting yourself in a situation where an accusation could be made without proof, i.e. never be alone with someone of the opposite sex, especially children.
I know too many silent lambs personally to ignore this issue. It would be the same as allowing them to be molested all over again if I didn't say something....
Mrs R
Howdy,
Just sitting hear watching the news on WIS tv, which had a special part on sexual child abuse. Statistics given as current: 1 out of 4 girls will be sexually abused, 1 out of 6 boys. (I've heard that the boy statistic is not considered accurate by some specialists because it's rarer for a boy to speak out.)
Another statistic given (on the news) by the FBI: Less than 10% of sexual abused persons will ever speak about the abuse.
I would suspect that out of the many millions of past, current, inactive, children - all those Jehovah's Witnesses........ the victims on SilentLambs site is quite less than 10% of all those Jehovah's Witnesses.
Well within a reasonable range - statistically - actually too few to be truly representative for the amount of Jehovah's Witnesses.
The reporter was asked - why continue to speak out? Her reasons:
1. Many victims will act out - through drugs, prostitution, pregnancies, etc. Some say that *most* victims will act out - one way or another.
2. Violence ties in commonly with sexual abuse.
3. A disproportionately high number of victims will become abusers in the future - or facilitate abusers (ie: mothers)
waiting
AlanF,
Use all the bullying language you want. I knew you would. You don't want discussion, you want submission, total submission. Nothing anti Watchtower can ever be wrong. Because it is anti-Watchtower, no matter what the thought process or tactic it is somehow blessed.
I disagree.
Check Silentlambs concordance of posts here and you will find him posting links to the Ohio anti-door to door case. I raised concern to him when he did it and I raise it again now. It gives the appearance that he is merely anti-Watchtower and not strictly trying to assist the victims.
On the other issue, yes it is my opinion, that caught up in anti-Watchtower furvor, the physical and mental health of the victims may get pushed to the side. No, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. I just never see any mention of any support mechanism for the victims. All I ever see is anti-Watchtower news postings.
I went and read the victims page on Silentlambs yesterday and found the stories remarkably well written and I have to give them credence. I also sincerely hope they all get help to heal.
But, I will continue to point out what I see as missteps in Bill's mission. As I said, Bill can do what he wants with this information. He has plenty of yes men, he doesn't need any more.
As for you. You could have presented your refutation to my opinions succinctly and kindly, but you made it personal, as you do with others who dare to disagree with you. You're willingness to go personal so quickly during a discussion of differences is an interesting trait.
I for my part believe finding balance is the best way for anyone to heal from any type of victimization and I will continue to point to its value.
Joel
Oh and Alan, if you think opinion and especially public opinion is meaningless, your living in a dream world.
It is assumed that if you aren't for the Silent Lambs cause then you are automatically and advocate of child molestation. In fact not a few in this forum have called me a child molester. What utter stupidity.
Ya got the "stupidity" part, anyhow, asshole. What the hell is the point of this post? We know there are 2 sides to every story, but as research shows - 99% of charges against defendants in child molestation case are true. So, what? We're supposed to ease up the effort in getting molesters "outed" from JW congregations, and let these sickos continue?
-M
"Any day spent NOT knocking on doors is a good day!"
Prolong2 = 1 sick fuck-up...OUTLAW
