Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-16-11 WT Study (BAPTISM)

by blondie 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • blondie

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-16-11 WT Study (NOVEMBER 15, 2010, pages 12-16 )(BAPTISM)

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    — W HAT W ILL Y OU D O


    “The way I am directing my blows

    is so as not to be striking the air.”—1 COR. 9:26.


    I grew up during the late 60’s and early 70’s in a family with a non-jw father and a shaky jw mother. I had to face baptism, did I do it because all my peers were doing, did I do it because 1975 was so close and people not baptized as jws would die eternally. I have to admit that I did not get family pressure partly because my mother really had no status in the congregation, she was a woman and married to a non-jw.

    Do teenage children of jws “hold back” without the Damocles sword of 1975 over their head? Do parents threaten to kick out their children that do not get baptized? Do jw parents try to buy their children with cars, trips, a free ride if they do and pioneer?


    1, 2. For you to be successful as you grow toward

    adulthood, what do you need to have?

    I F YOU were going to travel on an unfamiliar

    trail, you might want to take along a

    map and a compass. The map would help

    you to identify your current position and aid

    in plotting out a course. The compass would

    allow you to orient yourself. However, both

    the map and the compass would be of little

    use if you did not know where you were

    headed. To avoid wandering aimlessly, you

    would need a clearly defined destination.


    Map---WT pubs or bible


    If map = bible, does GPS = WT-CD?

    How many people even know what a compass looks like let alone how it works?

    2 You face a similar situation as you grow

    toward adulthood. You have available both

    a reliable map and a compass. The Bible is a

    map that can help you to know which path

    to choose. (Prov. 3:5, 6) If properly trained,

    your conscience can be a great help in keeping

    you on the right course. (Rom. 2:15) It

    can serve as a compass. For your life to be

    successful, though, you also need to know

    where you are headed. You need clearly defined



    What does the WTS define as adulthood? Marriage—18 or older, driving—16 or older, sign contract—18 or older but baptism, as young as 6

    “properly” trained by whom? WTS or bible?

    3. What benefits of having goals does Paul refer to

    at 1 Corinthians 9:26?

    3 The apostle Paul summed up the benefits

    of setting goals and endeavoring to

    reach them when he wrote: “The way I am

    running is not uncertainly; the way I am directing

    my blows is so as not to be striking

    the air.” (1 Cor. 9:26) If you have goals, you

    can run with certainty. Soon, you will have

    to make some major decisions regarding

    worship, employment, marriage, and family,

    to name a few. At times, you may feel as

    though you are facing a maze of options.

    But if you plot out your course ahead of

    time, basing your decisions on the truths

    and principles found in God’s Word, you

    will not be tempted to head in the wrong direction.—

    2 Tim. 4:4, 5.


    Who sets our goals?

    Who decides worship, employment, marriage, family? Parents, WTS, Bible?

    4, 5. (a) What can happen if you do not set goals

    for yourself? (b) Why should your choices be governed

    by a desire to please God?

    4 If you do not set goals for yourself, your

    peers and teachers are likely to influence

    you to do what they feel is right for you. Of

    course, even if you have clear goals, some

    may still offer their opinions. When listening

    to their suggestions, ask yourself,

    ‘Would the goals they mention help me to

    remember my Creator while I am young or

    would they distract me from doing so?’

    —Read Ecclesiastes 12:1.


    Have parents told children they must regular pioneer, go to Bethel, not go to college, etc. Has it been the child’s choice?

    5 Why should your choices in life be governed

    by a desire to please God? One reason

    is that Jehovah gave us every good thing we

    have. (Jas. 1:17) Really, everyone owes Jehovah

    a debt of gratitude. (Rev. 4:11) What better

    way could there be for you to show your

    appreciation than keeping Jehovah in mind

    when you set goals? Let us consider what

    goals are worth attaining and what you

    must do to reach them.


    Please God or parents and WTS?

    Where is Jesus in this equation?

    What Goals Can You Set?

    6. What fundamental goal could you set, and why?

    6 As mentioned in the preceding article, a

    fundamental goal that you can set is to

    prove to yourself that what is said in the Bible

    is true. (Rom. 12:2; 2 Cor. 13:5) Your

    peers may believe in evolution or in various

    false religious doctrines because others have

    told them that this is what they should believe.

    However, you can rise above such

    thinking when it comes to your own beliefs.

    Remember, Jehovah wants you to serve him

    with your whole mind. (Read Matthew 22:

    36, 37.) Our heavenly Father wants you to

    build your faith on evidence.—Heb.11:1.


    Prove that what is said in the Bible is true or what is in the WT publications is true?

    What beliefs has the WTS had that they have changed and then returned to the previous belief?

    Example: SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES (Romans 13:1,2)

    Up to 1929: secular authorities

    1929 to 1962: God and Jesus

    1962 to present: secular authorities

    Was the Bible wrong or the WTS?

    7, 8. (a) Setting what short-term goals will help

    you to strengthen your faith? (b) What will you

    experience as you reach some of your short-term


    7 To help strengthen your faith, why not

    set some short-term goals? One goal could

    be to pray each day. To help keep your

    prayers fresh and specific, you could make a

    mental or a written note of a day’s specific

    events that you want to include in your

    prayers. Be sure to mention not only the

    challenges you faced but also the things you

    enjoyed. (Phil. 4:6) Another goal is to read

    the Bible each day. Did you know that if you

    read about four pages a day, you will complete

    the whole Bible in just one year?*

    “Happy is the man . . . [whose] delight is in

    the law of Jehovah,” states Psalm 1:1, 2,

    “and in his law he reads in an undertone day

    and night.”

    *See The Watchtower, August 1, 2009, pages 15-18.


    Pray each day…if Jesus is only the mediator of the anointed, how does 1 Timothy 2:5 apply to non-anointed jws? Should you pray through Jesus?

    ***w75 7/1 p. 402 par. 8 Coming to the Hearer of Prayer***

    To communicate readily with the heavenly Father, one must accept Christ Jesus as Lord. Peace with God can come only through the appointed way, the ransom provision by the Lord Jesus. (Matt. 20:28; 1 Tim. 2:5, 6) He is the provision for approach to God in prayer and reconciliation with him. Jesus rightly declared: “No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) He is the “helper” that plays a vital role in our having access to the Hearer of prayer. (1 John 2:1, 2) The way, therefore, to come to God is on the basis of Christ’s official services as high priest as well as the ransom he provided for mankind. Our asking in his name and coming to the Father is, therefore, in recognition of his office as God’s “Chief Agent of life.” No other intermediary is necessary in addressing our prayers to God.—Acts 3:15; John 14:13, 14; Heb. 10:19-22.

    To help keep your

    prayers fresh and specific, you could make a

    mental or a written note of a day’s specific

    events that you want to include in your


    So is this how prayers are arrived at at the KH? How is that possible when Brother Prayer Giver doesn’t find out until 60 seconds before the meeting starts? Or the brothers at the convention/assembly that obviously have a script/outline for the prayer?

    8 A third short-term goal you could set is

    that of preparing an answer for each congregation

    meeting. At first, you may want

    to read the answer or a scripture. Later,

    you could have the goal of answering in

    your own words. Really, each time you answer,

    you are offering a gift to Jehovah.

    (Heb. 13:15) Once you have reached some

    of these goals, your confidence will grow, as

    will your appreciation for Jehovah, and you

    will be ready to set long-term goals.

    Do you have

    a goal of reading

    the Bible daily?


    Preparing an answer…read it from the paragraph, look up a scripture or just the snippet in the paragraph? In your own words…I have seen adults just move the words around.

    The book says

    The paragraph says

    The magazine says

    9. If you are not yet a Kingdom publisher, what

    long-term goals could you set for yourself?

    9 What long-term goals could you set for

    yourself? If you have not yet started to proclaim

    the good news publicly, your long term

    goal might be to become a Kingdom

    publisher. Once you reach this honorable

    goal, you will want to be regular and effective,

    never missing a month of service. You

    will also want to learn to use the Bible in the

    ministry. As you do, you will probably discover

    that you enjoy the preaching work

    more. You could then increase the amount

    of time you spend in the house-to-house

    work or even endeavor to conduct a Bible

    study. As an unbaptized publisher, what better

    goal could you have than to qualify for

    baptism and become a dedicated and baptized Witness

    of Jehovah God?


    Set for yourself—or have the WTS set for you in this paragraph?

    Become a Kingdom publisher—that’s right, Jesus never had the goal, but you must?

    Must be “regular” (1 hour a month) and “effective” like the adults that never make return visits, never read the publications before going out, use the same presentation they have for the last 35 years?

    Use the Bible—do you see adults do this?

    Baptism—6 years old or ten or 12 or 14; how old do you parents want you to be to get married?

    10, 11. What long-term goals can baptized youths

    set for themselves?

    10 If you are already a baptized servant of

    Jehovah, here are some long-term goals you

    can reach out for. You might occasionally

    want to help congregations to preach in seldom

    worked territory. You may also choose

    to use your strength and good health in the

    auxiliary or regular pioneer work. Tens of

    thousands of happy pioneers will tell you

    that full-time service is a rewarding way to

    remember your Creator during your youth.

    These are goals that you can achieve while

    living at home. Your local congregation will

    also benefit from your reaching them.


    Baptized servant of Jehovah—but not a Christian witness of Jesus as Acts 1:8 says?

    Why are those congregations not working their territory? How often and effectively are the territories worked in your congregation? Can you find out?

    Pioneering—yes, mom and dad will let you live free at home, provide a car, pay for nice trips, are you preparing to be able to support a family?

    11 Other long-term goals could lead you

    beyond your home congregation. For example,

    you could plan to serve in another area

    or country where the need is greater. You

    might want to help construct Kingdom

    Halls or branch facilities in foreign lands.

    You may even be able to enter Bethel service

    or become a missionary. Of course, the first

    milestone you will need to reach before you

    can move on to most of the long-term goals

    mentioned here is that of getting baptized.

    If you are not yet baptized, consider what is

    involved in reaching this milestone in your



    Serve in another country…how do you pay for this, parents pony up?

    So when do you learn construction skills…or does the WTS take people with no skills?

    Reaching the Goal of Baptism

    12. For what reasons do some get baptized, and

    why are these not sufficient?

    12 How would you describe the purpose of

    baptism? Some might think that it is to protect

    them from giving in to sin. Others

    may feel that they should get baptized because

    their peers have been immersed. Other

    young ones may want to please their parents.

    However, baptism is not a contract that

    restrains you from doing things that you

    would secretly like to do; nor should you get

    baptized in response to pressure from others.

    You should get baptized when you are

    fully aware of what being one of Jehovah’s

    Witnesses involves and when you are sure

    that you are ready and willing to take on this

    responsibility.—Eccl. 5:4, 5.


    SOME think that it is to protect them from giving into sin….a teaching of the WTS.

    OTHERS …. Peers have been immersed—pressure to get baptized from parents when all your peers are baptized

    Being “one of Jehovah’s Witnesses” or a Christian? Did Jesus’ followers get baptized as jws?

    Remember once you are baptized…you can be disfellowshipped and have all your family and friends totally shun you.

    13. Why should you get baptized?

    13 One reason to undergo baptism is that

    Jesus commissioned his followers to “make

    disciples . . . baptizing them. ”He also set an

    example by getting baptized. (Read Matthew

    28:19, 20; Mark 1:9.) Moreover, baptism

    is an important step for those who

    want to be saved. After mentioning Noah’s

    constructing of the ark in which he and his

    family were preserved during the Flood,

    the apostle Peter stated: “That which corresponds

    to this is also now saving you, namely,

    baptism, . . . through the resurrection of

    Jesus Christ.” (1 Pet. 3:20, 21) This does not

    mean, though, that baptism is like an insurance

    policy that you obtain in case a disaster

    should strike. Instead, you get baptized because

    you love Jehovah and want to serve

    him with your whole heart, soul, mind, and

    strength.—Mark 12:29, 30.


    In fact the WTS says that baptism as a jw is the mark mentioned at Ezekiel 9:4-6. That people who are not will die forever at Armageddon.

    ***w87 4/15 pp. 12-13 par. 12 Gaining Peace With God Through Dedication and Baptism***

    Should even youths consider baptism? Well, recall that Jehovah told the six armed men in the vision: “Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women you should kill off—to a ruination. But to any man upon whom there is the mark do not go near.” (Ezekiel 9:6) Of course, children too young to make a dedication would be protected by a parent’s “mark” if that parent is striving to bring the children up to love Jehovah and if they are obediently responding. (1 Corinthians 7:14) Yet, if a child is intelligent enough to make a personal decision and has reached the point where he “knows how to do what is right,” do not presume that he will continue indefinitely under the merit of his parent’s “mark.”—James 4:17.

    14. Why might some hold back from baptism, but

    what assurance do you have?

    14 Some may hesitate to get baptized out

    of fear that they may be disfellowshipped at

    a later time. Do you have this fear? If so,

    such fear is not necessarily unhealthy in itself.

    It can mean that you appreciate the serious

    responsibility that comes with being

    one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Might there

    also be another reason? Maybe you are not

    yet convinced that living by God’s standards

    is the best way of life. In that case,

    thinking about the consequences that come

    to those who ignore Bible standards can

    help you to make up your mind. On the other hand,

    it could be that you love God’s standards

    but do not trust yourself to be able to

    live up to them. Actually, that can be a good

    sign, for it shows humility on your part. After

    all, the Bible says that all imperfect human

    hearts are treacherous. (Jer. 17:9) But

    you can be successful if you constantly ‘keep

    on guard according to God’s word.’ (Read

    Psalm119:9.)Whatever reasons there are for

    your hesitation to get baptized, you need to

    resolve such issues and concerns.*

    *For help in this regard, see the book Questions Young

    People Ask—Answers That Work, Volume 2, chapter 34.


    But based on the WTS statements that unbaptized people will die forever at Armageddon, avoiding baptism is not avoiding death per the WTS. And of course, unbaptized adult children of jws can be and have been shunned.

    15, 16. How can you tell if you are ready for baptism?

    15 How, though, can you tell whether you

    are ready for baptism? One way is to ask

    yourself such questions as: ‘Can I explain

    basic Bible teachings to others? Do I engage

    in the ministry even when my parents do

    not? Do I endeavor to attend all Christian

    meetings? Can I recall specific instances

    when I resisted peer pressure? Would I continue

    to serve Jehovah even if my parents

    and friends stopped doing so? Have I prayed

    about my relationship with God? And have I

    actually made an unreserved dedication to

    Jehovah in prayer?’


    Is a six year old ready, an eight year old, a ten year old? Perhaps based on the example of 5-year-old Samuel, 5-year old children could be baptized………!!!

    Do you think the six year old baptized in Chicago a few years ago would go d2d without their parent, attend all the meetings even if their parents did not, resist peer pressure!!!!

    16 Baptism is a life-altering step that

    should not be taken lightly. Are you mature

    enough to consider this step seriously? Maturity

    means more than being able to give

    good talks from the platform or impressive

    answers during a meeting. It requires being

    able to make decisions based on an understanding

    of Bible principles. (Read Hebrews

    5:14.) If you are at a stage in life where you

    can do that, then what lies before you is the

    greatest privilege of all—that of serving Jehovah

    wholeheartedly and living in a way

    that shows that you are truly dedicated to



    So if your child is not old enough to choose to marry, drive a car, smoke, sign a contract, are they old enough to make the most life-altering decision?

    What will help you to reach

    the goal of getting baptized?

    17. What will help you cope with trials that may follow

    your baptism?

    17 Immediately after baptism, you may

    feel a surge of enthusiasm for serving God.

    Soon, though, you may face trials that will

    test your faith and resilience. (2 Tim. 3:12)

    Do not feel that you have to deal with these

    trials alone. Seek your parents’ advice. Look

    to mature ones in the congregation for help.

    Maintain friendships with those who will

    support you. Never forget that Jehovah cares

    for you, and he will give you the strength

    needed to face any circumstance that may

    arise.—1 Pet. 5:6, 7.


    Feel a surge of enthusiasm—sounds like infatuation not grounded love

    So how long will they seek parents advice? 20, 30, 50??? Or should a 16 year old seek the advice of their parents or “mature ones” who have no parental responsibility?

    How Can You Reach Your Goals?

    18, 19. How can you benefit from examining your


    18 Despite your best intentions, does it

    seem that you just never have enough time

    to do what you want and need to do? If so,

    you should examine your priorities. To illustrate:

    Take a plastic bucket and place several

    large rocks inside it. Then fill the bucket

    with sand. You have a bucket full of rocks

    and sand. Empty the bucket but keep the

    same sand and rocks. This time, fill the

    bucket with the sand first, and then try to

    place the rocks inside the bucket. No room?

    That is because you put the sand in the

    bucket first.


    This is a lame illustration…sounds like someone new is making them up or stealing someone else’s idea without attribution.

    19 You face a similar challenge when managing

    your time. If you put things like recreation

    in first place, you will never seem to

    have enough room in your life for the big

    things—spiritual pursuits. But if you follow

    the Bible’s admonition to “make sure of the

    more important things,” you will find that

    you have room for both Kingdom interests

    and a measure of recreation.—Phil.1:10.


    So which is more important earning money for rent, food, transportation, or going to a meeting? Will the people there feed you if you quit your job because it interferes with one meeting?

    20. If you experience anxiety and doubts as you

    strive to reach your goals, what should you do?

    20 As you strive to reach your goals, including

    baptism, you may at times experience

    anxiety and doubts. When you do,

    “throw your burden upon Jehovah himself,

    and he himself will sustain you.” (Ps. 55:22)

    At present, you have the opportunity to

    share in the most exciting and important

    work in human history, a worldwide preaching

    and teaching campaign. (Acts 1:8) You

    could choose to be a spectator and watch

    others do this work. Or you could be part of

    the action. Do not hold back from contributing

    your talents toward furthering Kingdom

    interests. You will never regret serving

    “your Creator in the days of your youth.”

    —Eccl.12:1,New International Version.


    So will God provide food, housing, medicine?

    Watch others not make return visits, waste time, not prepare…if jws were judged by how effective they were in making disciples as if a job, would they be fired?

    What lesson do you learn from this illustration?

    How Would You Answer?

    • Why should you set goals?
    • What are some goals that are worth


    • What is involved in reaching the goal

    of baptism?

    • How can examining your priorities

    help you to attain your goals?


    Things have been busy and stressful lately. Would you marry someone your parents picked and at a time they chose? If not do not let them make this decision for you. Get in a position where you are not dependent financially on your parents and have friends outside the KH.

    Love, Blondie

  • sd-7

    Great post, Blondie.

    I noticed that Jesus was mentioned in all of one paragraph. Nice. Also, there were three whole paragraphs that went by without even a scripture citation. Stuff like that has helped me to realize recently just how little of the Bible is actually being considered at these meetings.

    It's a contradictory concept, what they say to young people. Don't get baptized because of being pressured. But you will die, like, forever if you're old enough (whatever that vague concept means) and you haven't done it. ... But no pressure. Obviously. It's supposed to be your decision, yet you're going to be under constant pressure to do what they tell you to do. You'll be made to feel inadequate otherwise. It's a sad dilemma to grow up with.

    I remember reading an old Kingdom Ministry where a father was praised for threatening to throw his son out of the house if he didn't pioneer. I found that to be bizarre and unfair, to say the least.

    The picture of the girl getting baptized has a number of messages. For one, she's clearly well into her teens, I should think. For two, she's got the 'modest bathing suit', so it's not a wet T-shirt contest going on, a green T-shirt with evidently modest attire beneath it.

    But I do wonder why I keep reading them lately. Guess it's one way to pass the time...


  • pirata

    Why did I get baptized?

    As a young teen, my mom, with all good intentions, kept asking me "what is holding you back from getting baptized?" I kept answering "I don't know".

    Finally, I got baptized because it was the "right thing to do". I considered it "positive peer pressure". And I felt good about the praise I got in the congregation about my spiritual progress, good talks, etc.

  • garyneal

    marked for later comment

  • MrFreeze

    I was 12 when I got baptised. How can a 12 year old kid make that kind of a decision, let alone a 6 year old kid? It baffles me to this day. A decision I make then should not affect me 40 years from now. It's the same reason they don't try 12 year olds as adults.

  • ziddina
    "As mentioned in the preceding article, a fundamental goal that you can set is to prove to yourself that what is said in the Bible is true. (Rom. 12:2; 2 Cor. 13:5) Your peers may believe in evolution or in various false religious doctrines because others have told them that this is what they should believe. ..."


    The level of hypocrisy in those statements rings the bell and beyond....

    "Prove to yourself that what is said in the Bible is true..."???? Really??? Like researching the date that Babylon actually DID destroy Jerusalem??? 587 BC instead of 607 BC... Like learning Biblical Hebrew and Greek? Like obtaining a college education in biblical studies???

    NONE of these activities would be approved by the Watchtower Society...

    The second statement, "Your peers may believe in evolution ..... because others have told them that this is what they should believe. ..."

    Really??? I've read numerous books on geology; I've looked at the sedimentary evidence just within my general geographic region, showing that a global flood within the last 6,000 - heck, within the last 50,000 years - didn't happen; I've been collecting fossils over my ENTIRE lifetime and have read extensively about them, and I base my confidence in the workability of the "theory" of evolution on what I've personally observed, along with other information I've obtained on the subject...

    The time in my life when I was told what I SHOULD believe, occurred during the time I spent within the Watchtower Society's system...

    All one has to do is look at the most recent edicts on the near-absolute authority ol of the Governing Body, to see where Jehovah's Witness youths are being told that "this is what they SHOULD believe..." !!

    Thanks again, Blondie, for posting this!!


  • Sharpie

    @ Mrfreeze I had a comment I wanted to say. But decided to keep my mouth shut.

    There is one BOY age 11 that recently got baptized in my congregation. Obviously i dont want to pin point the child. But I do want to say something generic like. "We should follow Jesus's example, even though he was preaching at 12 (Luke 2:42), Jesus only got baptized when he was a mature adult"

  • DanaBug

    I was 12, my brother was 10, my sister was 8.

    This article seems to be saying those ages are too young especially par 15 & 16. I still think it's something that only adults should do.

  • JeffT

    They lost me in the first couple of pargraphs. The Wathtower's map is, well OK, it needs to be updated on a regular basis because; mind you it wasn't WRONG, it just needed to be changed because stuff moves around, and it wasn't exacly right. And the compass spins in cricles because... well anyway you have to follow it.


    Jesus said:

    Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I will be with you always, to the very end of the age. (Matthew 28:19-20)

    The Watchtower Society says in PARAGRAPH 12:

    You should get baptized when you are

    fully aware of what being one of Jehovah’s

    Witnesses involves and when you are sure

    that you are ready and willing to take on this

    responsibility.—Eccl. 5:4, 5

    I wish someone would of explained this to me when I got baptized at 15 years old. The WTS told me 30 years ago that I was baptized in the name of Father,Son and Holy Spirit not the WTS. Now they give me no choice but to fade since they changed the rules. You can easily get in the organization but impossible to get out.

    SHAME ON YOU WTS for changing the rules and for making it too easy for young ones to get baptized !

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