Definately a Freudian Slip by the collective Governing Body.
Awake! July 2009 No one should be made to choose between their beliefs and family
by Awen 73 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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00DAD
King Sol, I understand "their position" perfectly. I really don't need a condescending "study session" from you.
I experience everyday the reality of the WTBTS's insititutionalized shunning that gives lie to their public propaganda that people shouldn't be forced to choose between their beliefs and their family. Not only myself, but thousands of other people every day have to experience what it means to be shunned by JW family members. These are people that have been manipulated into thinking that they have to choose between "Jehovah" (the organization) and a disfellowshipped relative.
If you can't see that the two quotes Cedars pulled contradict each other I really can't help you. It's plain. They make a statement that they apply hypocritically to all other religions other than their own. They believe they are above that and act contrary to it. The July 2009 Awake! begins with a Sikh woman saying that changing her religion means she would be cut off from her family. The title of the article is: " Is It Wrong to Change Your Religion? " with the implied answer being "No." No, that is, as long as you change from anything else to becoming one of JWs.! On the other hand, if someone is a JW and they change their religion or are disfellowshipped then they will find the answer is "Yes!" it is wrong to change your religion and you will be shunned by your family members as the second quote says. In that case everyone involved is forced to make a choice: Choose Jehovah (the organization) over your family or you two will be shunned.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to come here and in your self-righteous, pompous way come and pontificate and tell us what the WT really means. You seem to get off on following certain ones of us around and picking a petty little stuff like it's some scab you just can't leave alone.
You just can't seem to help yourself, can you? Seriously, leave it alone.
But thanks for the link.
00DAD
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00DAD
PS to my last post:
Clearly people are FREE to choose to leave JWs, but there will be consequences. What is significant is that the July 2009 Awake! quote does not talk about free-will. The key point is the use of force on the part of another in the choice:
No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.
The coercive force is the threat of shunning and it's implementation when and if a JW leaves the organization. As I wrote above, if someone leaves JWs or is disfellowshipped, then they and their family are forced to make a choice between their beliefs and their family. They are forced to make this choice by WT policies and practices. The family members that remain in the organization are told that they are disloyal to Jehovah if the have any contact with their disfellowshipped family members.
The psychological manipulation is an abusive misuse of authority on the part of the WT leadership.
00DAD
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King Solomon
00Dad, save the "self-righteous, pompous" accusations: not all of us had the benefit of being in the JWs for 25 years (you joined as an ADULT, did you?).
It seems your ego still revolves around being a JW elder who can push your ideas via proclamation, but this is not the KH, and we're not your publishers. So if you're not willing to have your mistaken understanding of JW eschatology corrected for the sake of getting to TTATT in a valid and truthful manner, then make sure of your facts before posting (or, you can seek reinstatement into the JWs, and see if you can struggle your way back to the BOE). Because from here, you are simply living up to JW expectations, and coming off as just another raging hate-filled apostate.
And don't bother responding, unless you've got something OT to say. It's not about YOU or ME, but getting to the truth, the reality, so others are not going to be shot down by a JW on the issue who simply corrects their misunderstanding.
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00DAD
sigh ...
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ReallyTrulyAthena
00Dad and Cedars - thank you.
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00DAD
ReallyTrulyAthena: 00Dad and Cedars - thank you.
Thanks for the support, I really appreciate it!
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00DAD
On this thread as well as on another, some seem to be confused by the picture that Cedars posted above the quote from the July 2009 Awake!
That picture is NOT from the same article. It's not even from an Awake! It is from the Watchtower of July 15th, 2011, page 31.
I'm not sure why he did this, probably for dramatic affect, I don't know. I have written to him earlier today to find out why and am still waiting for his answer. Knowing Cedars, I'm sure his intentions were good, but the pairing of the two together seems to be causing some confusion.
Several posters here have drawn erroneous conclusions thinking that the picture and the quote went together. They don't!
The Public Message from the WTBTS: The Awake! article is talking about non-JWs leaving their religion to become a JW. The article specifically starts with the experience of a woman that is a Sikh:
When Avtar began studying the Bible, her Sikh family was upset. “In my homeland,” she says, “changing your religion cuts you off from the community. Even our names have religious meaning. To change your religion is viewed as rejecting your identity and disrespecting your family. AVTAR eventually became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. ” - g 7/09 pp. 28-29 - [Emphasis added]
The controversial quote comes a mere eight paragraphs later in the same article.
No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family. Does study of the Bible lead to family breakup? No. In fact, the Bible encourages a husband and wife who practice different religions to remain together as a family.
The Private Message from the WTBTS - For JWs only: The WT article, on contrast, is specifically talking about JW kids that leave "Jehovah." In fact, the picture in question is positioned in the article under the subheading, "When Someone We Love Leaves Jehovah."
Here is an excerpt from that section which reads, in part:
12 ... There may be occasions, though,when our loyalty to this aspect of God’s purpose is sorely tested. Suppose, for example, that the only son of an exemplary Christian couple leaves the truth. Preferring “the temporary enjoyment of sin” to a personal relationship with Jehovah and with his godly parents, the young man is disfellowshipped.— Heb.11:25.
13 The parents are devastated! On the subject of disfellowshipping, they know, of course, that the Bible says “to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.” (1 Cor. 5:11,13) They also realize that the word “anyone” in this verse includes family members not living under their roof. ... - w2011 7/15, p. 30-31 [Emphasis added]
This is a clear example of WTBTS doublespeak. They have one set of standards for the public and and completely different set of standards and practices for themselves and/or ex-Witnesses. The reason anyone "leaves the truth" is irrelevant to them. There is no honorable way to walk away from being a Witness.
Notice the WT article talks of of son that "leaves" but doesn't say why. But in the next paragraph he is demonized by implication when they trot out the infamous list of Paul's for expelling someone. The average R&F congregation member un-critically reading this would not realize they are carefully being led to assume that this young man is "a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner" when in fact he may be none of those things. He may simply have had enough and not want anything to do with it anymore.
Their shunning policy forces JWs and ex-JWs to make choices they simply would not have to make if that policy did not exist. As the experience of many of us shows, it is unlikely in this hypothetical situation that the young man walking out the door would shun his parents. It is the JW parents that remain "in the truth" that will shun their son at the bidding of the anonymous writers of this WT article.
All three people in this made up, but sadly all too realistic, scenario are forced to make choices that no one should have to make:
- The Young Man - leave the truth (according to the WT) and have your parents shun you
- The Devastated Parents - shun your son or face sanctions from the local Body of Elders
And they are forced to make these choices by the leadership of the WTBTS, the same people that published this:
"No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family. "
Let's review: It's a cult!
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cedars
00DAD
I'm not sure why he did this, probably for dramatic affect, I don't know. I have written to him earlier today to find out why and am still waiting for his answer. Knowing Cedars, I'm sure his intentions were good, but the pairing of the two together seems to be causing some confusion.
Several posters here have drawn erroneous conclusions thinking that the picture and the quote went together. They don't!
Why are you making such a big fuss over the pictures?! Are you saying I shouldn't use any shunning-related imagery, and instead I should just put the quotes by themselves?! Fine, anyone can do that in a few seconds.
There isn't a clean line down the middle, so from that alone it should be obvious that the pictures don't neccesarily correspond with the quotes. However, both pictures depict the consequences of either shunning or putting religion before family, which is what the quotes are about, so I don't understand what the big deal is.
Cedars
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yadda yadda 2
Got to be one of the most hypocritical things the Watchtower has ever said. Truly shameful hypocrisy.
