As far as I am concerned, I am living my life like it's golden.
This is good; you are being re-gruntled into society.
Do Ex-JWs have reason to be disgruntled?
by sabastious 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
SixofNine
-
Hoffnung
Disgruntled? Nitpickers? Some of us harbor some anger. Most of it is quite justified, though. If you believed the teaching about armageddon-just-around-the-corner, and now you don't believe it any more then You realize you never made any plans for more then 5 years ahead. This is an absolute catastrophe as it had an extremely negative impact on my parents for example. My father quit university after one year in the early 70s because of 1975. He became a carpenter instead, and was the sole bread winner for a family of 5. My mother has never had a job, as it was considered unnecessary as Armaggeddon would come way before the kids would leave high school. (stated literally over and over again, needless to say I am working already for many years). They were never able to buy a house, so their pension will be just enough to cover the rent. Although it definitely had advantages that mom did not have a job, it further ensured our growing up as self rightheous JW, looking down on all "worldlings". This harmed severely my social skills, on top of a fear controlled conscience, and I have this load the rest of my life. This is a common problem among born-ins. As a consequence of parents discouraging university and the lack of financing capabilities, none of us kids went past high school. We are all close to minimum wage earners. The negative effects of just this one teaching is multiplying itself over several generations. Just imagine if someone would have told them in the early 70 that Armaggedon would not come before 2010. Boy, my life would have been VERY different, and most probably a lot better, that is for sure. And guess what? I cannot be angry on the local bros. and sis. in the congo. They are in general nice people trying to live up to the heavy burdens laid upon their shoulders by the society. I cannot even be angry on the local elders, as they try to enforce the stupid rules from the very same society. They have the best intentions most of the time. They just never realized that the rules are not christian at all, and only serve to protect the society and to enslave the minds of the bros. and sis. even more into this fear and mind control.
If we then consider all the torn apart families of DFed ones, where grandmas of 80 NEVER saw their 10 grand children, where mothers are made to believe it is right to shun their daughters an ENTIRE LIFE TIME because they married an unbeliever and had 3 times sex before marriage, or the mother that died during her 1st child birth, because she refused the life saving treatment, and the child growing up without mum, the victims of child abuse that were silenced by idiot elders applying an even more idiotic policy, the gossip, slander and unjustices rampant in so many congos, a complete incorrect set of doctrines, easy to prove with the bible, I believe some disgruntledness is understandable.
Just to consider, this board would not even exist if the society was not as bad as it is. The rapid increase of members is telling about the worsening of the society.
-
blondie
Well, then Jesus was "disgruntled." (book of Matthew)
The Pharisees draw an evil conclusion, and Jesus rebukes them
12:24 - But the Pharisees on hearing this remark said to each other, "This man is only expelling devils because he is in league with Beelzebub, the prince of devils."
12:25-29 - Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is bound to collapse, and no town or household divided against itself can last for long. If it is Satan who is expelling Satan, then he is divided against himself - so how do you suppose that his kingdom can continue? And if I expel devils because I am an ally of Beelzebub, what alliance do your sons make when they do the same thing? They can settle that question for you! But if I am expelling devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has swept over you unawares! How do you suppose anyone could get into a strong man's house and steal his property unless he first tied up the strong man? But if he did that, he could ransack his whole house.
12:30-32 - "The man who is not on my side is against me, and the man who does not gather with me is really scattering. That is why I tell you that men may be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit cannot be forgiven. A man may say a word against the Son of Man and be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven either in this world or in the world to come!
12:33 - "You must choose between having a good tree with good fruit and a rotten tree with rotten fruit. For you can tell a tree at once by its fruit.
12:34-37 - "You serpent's brood, how can you say anything good out of your evil hearts? For a man's words depend on what fills his heart. A good man gives out good - from the goodness stored in his heart; a bad man gives out evil - from his store of evil. I tell you that men will have to answer at the day of judgment for every careless word they utter - for it is your words that will acquit you, and your words that will condemn you."
CHAPTER 15
The dangers of tradition
15:1-2 - Then some of the scribes and Pharisees from Jerusalem came and asked Jesus, "Why do your disciples break our ancient tradition and eat their food without washing their hands properly?"
15:3-9 - "Tell me," replied Jesus, "why do you break God's commandment through your tradition? For God said,'Honour your father and your mother', and 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death' . But you say that if a man tells his parents, 'Whatever use I might have been to you is now given to God', then he owes no further duty to his parents. And so your tradition empties the commandment of God of all its meaning. You hypocrites! Isaiah describes you beautifully when he said: 'These people draw near to me with their mouth, and honour me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. And in vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men'."
Superficial and true cleanliness
15:10-11 - Then he called the crowd to him and said, "Listen, and understand this thoroughly! It is not what goes into a man's mouth that makes him common or unclean. It is what comes out of a man's mouth that makes him unclean."
15:12 - Later his disciples came to him and said, "Do you know that the Pharisees are deeply offended by what you said?"
15:13-14 - "Every plant which my Heavenly Father did not plant will be pulled up by the roots," returned Jesus. "Let them alone. They are blind guides, and when one blind man leads another blind man they will both end up in the ditch!"
15:15 - "Explain this parable to us," broke in Peter.
15:16 - "Are you still unable to grasp things like that?" replied Jesus.
15:17-20 - "Don't you see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and then out of the body altogether? But the things that come out of a man's mouth come from his heart and mind, and it is they that really make a man unclean. For it is from a man's mind that evil thoughts arise - murder, adultery, lust, theft, perjury and blasphemy. These are the things which make a man unclean, not eating without washing his hands properly!"
Jesus exposes the ignorance of the Sadducees
22:23-28 - On the same day some Sadducees (who deny that there is any resurrection) approached Jesus with this question: "Master, Moses said if a man should die without any children, his brother should marry his widow and raise up a family for him. Now, we have a case of seven brothers. The first one married and died, and since he had no family he left his wife to his brother. The same thing happened with the second and the third, right up to the seventh. Last of all the woman herself died. Now in this 'resurrection', whose wife will she be of these seven men - for she belonged to all of them?"
22:29-33 - "You are very wide of the mark," replied Jesus to them, "for you are ignorant of both the scriptures and the power of God. For in the resurrection there is no such thing as marrying or being given in marriage - men live like the angels in Heaven. And as for the matter of the resurrection of the dead, haven't you ever read what was once said to you by God himself, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob'? God is not God of the dead but of living men!" When the crowds heard this they were astounded at his teaching.
CHAPTER 23
He publicly warns the people against their religious leaders
23:1-12 - Then Jesus addressed the crowds and his disciples. "The scribes and the Pharisees speak with the authority of Moses," he told them, "so you must do what they tell you and follow their instructions. But you must not imitate their lives! For they preach but do not practise. They pile up back-breaking burdens and lay them on other men's shoulders - yet they themselves will not raise a finger to move them. Their whole lives are planned with an eye to effect. They increase the size of their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their robes; they love seats of honour at dinner parties and front places in the synagogues. They love to be greeted with respect in public places and to have men call them 'rabbi!' Don't you ever be called 'rabbi' - you have only one teacher, and all of you are brothers. And don't call any human being 'father' - for you have one Father and he is in Heaven. And you must not let people call you 'leaders' - you have only one leader, Christ! The only 'superior' among you is the one who serves the others. For every man who promotes himself will be humbled, and every man who learns to be humble will find promotion.
23:13-14 - "But alas for you, you scribes and Pharisees, play-actors that you are! You lock the door of the kingdom of Heaven in men's faces; you will not go in yourselves neither will you allow those at the door to go inside.
23:15 - "Alas for you, you scribes and Pharisees, play-actors! You scour sea and land to make a single convert, and then you make him twice as ripe for destruction as you are yourselves.
23:16-22 - "Alas for you, you blind leaders! You say, 'if anyone swears by the Temple it amounts to nothing, but if he swears by the gold of the Temple he is bound by his oath.' You blind fools, which is the more important, the gold or the Temple which sanctifies the gold? And you say, 'If anyone swears by the altar it doesn't matter, but if he swears by the gift placed on the altar he is bound by his oath.' Have you no eyes - which is more important, the gift, or the altar which sanctifies the gift? Any man who swears by the altar is swearing by the altar and whatever is offered upon it; and anyone who swears by the Temple is swearing by the Temple and by him who dwells in it; and anyone who swears by Heaven is swearing by the throne of God and by the one who sits upon that throne.
23:23-24 - "Alas for you, scribes and Pharisees, you utter frauds! For you pay your tithe on mint and aniseed and cummin, and neglect the things which carry far more weight in the Law - justice, mercy and good faith. These are the things you should have observed - without neglecting the others. You call yourselves leaders, and yet you can't see an inch before your noses, for you filter out the mosquito and swallow the camel.
23:25-26 - "What miserable frauds you are, you scribes and Pharisees! You clean the outside of the cup and the dish, while the inside is full of greed and self-indulgence. Can't you see, Pharisee? First wash the inside of a cup, and then you can clean the outside.
23:27-28 - "Alas for you, you hypocritical scribes and Pharisees! You are like white-washed tombs, which look fine on the outside but inside are full of dead men's bones and all kinds of rottenness. For you appear like good men on the outside - but inside you are a mass of pretence and wickedness.
23:29-36 - "What miserable frauds you are, you scribes and Pharisees! You build tombs for the prophets, and decorate monuments for good men of the past, and then say, 'If we had lived in the times of our ancestors we should never have joined in the killing of the prophets.' Yes, 'your ancestors' - that shows you to be sons indeed of those who murdered the prophets. Go ahead then, and finish off what your ancestors tried to do! You serpents, you viper's brood, how do you think you are going to avoid being condemned to the rubbish-heap? Listen to this: I am sending you prophets and wise and learned men; and some of these you will kill and crucify, others you will flog in your synagogues and hunt from town to town. So that on your hands is all the innocent blood spilt on this earth, from the blood of Abel the good to the blood of Zachariah, Barachiah's son, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Yes, I tell you that all this will be laid at the doors of this generation.
Jesus mourns over Jerusalem, and foretells its destruction
23:37-39 - "Oh, Jerusalem, Jerusalem! You murder the prophets and stone the messengers that are sent to you. How often have I longed to gather your children round me like a bird gathering her brood together under her wing - and you would never have it. Now all you have left is your house. I tell you that you will never see me again till the day when you cry, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!'"
-
sabastious
As far as if I as an ex-JW have a reason to be disgruntled, no because I am not disgruntled. I am disappointed that I invested a significant amount of time and energy into this religion just to find it was all a lie, but far from disgruntled. Nor will I allow a J-dub to label me as such. As far as I am concerned, I am living my life like it's golden.
That's a really cool statement Girlie, I'm happy that you have found your way and you're not looking back.
-Sab
-
Finally-Free
JWs spend their lives criticizing other religions, governments, business, the media, the health care industry, music, movies, education, and just about everything else you can think of.
Yet they call us disgruntled.
W
-
Awen
I would ask them "Who runs the organization"?
If they say Jehovah, then I would point them to the various scriptures where it says "to test the inspired expression to see whether it originates with GOD", "Make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine", "If a person comes to you in my name and utters a prophecy that does not come true, then I did not send them", or remind them of when Paul visited the Bereans and witnessed to them, how they didn't simply take his word at face value, but searched the scriptures carefully to see if what he said was true.....and he commended them for it.
Time and again in the scriptures GOD tells us to search for the truth. To keep knocking and it will be open, to keep searching. This is a lifelong process and doesn't end with the WTS
If the person says the GB runs the organization, then point them towards the Book of Acts where the society tries to use the one instance as the sole authority for their existence. Then point them towards 1st and 2nd Corinthins where that congregation wrote to Paul for advice concerning the man who took his father's wife into his bed. Why didn't they write to the GB (if indeed there was one)? Why didn't Paul in all his missionary journeys ever report to a GB? Why is there no reference to a central body of elders with authority over the 1st century Christians? What about in Revelation where Jesus counsels the seven congregations but makes no mention of a GB? Which had there been one in existence, they would have utterly failed in their duties for the fact that Jesus gave such strong counsel.
IF they insist that there was a GB despite pointing this out, then conclude that if things could get messed up back then, then why not now? Consider also that the Apostles argued amongst themselves while Jesus was alive and still had problems after his death as shown in Acts. Why is this incomprehensible now?
Peace,
Awen
-
miseryloveselders
I'm not an Ex-JW yet, but I'm still pretty disgruntled, but mostly I'm sad and defeated. Some days I feel angry, cheated, taken advantage of, lied to, depressed, stressed, misanthropic, just general malaise I guess you could say. Its rough some days cuz I don't know exactly who to lash out at. Like, I feel somebody has to pay for what they did to me, to us. I hate the thoughts circulating in my mind, and the emotions in my heart, and I tried a couple ways of running from them. I tried drinking a little more, and taking sedatives in an effort to be robotic. I figured I can work, handle congregational responsbilities, life's responsibilities, and when I get home by myself, I'll drink a brew or two and pop a sedative. That way I'll never have time to really think about all thats happened in my life that lead me to this point. The problem with that was I ended up waking in the morning with no recollection of what I did the night before. In some cases I posted things on here inappropriate, or I would wake up with stains on my tee shirt from the buffalo wings I ordered the night before, that I didn't remember ordering or eating. The stained tee shirt and Google cache doesn't lie though.
I guess what really burns, is the lost time. Considering how low I might live till, I may have wasted anywhere from a 1/3 to a 1/2 of my life voluntarily slaving for a religious publishing company. I try to view my own life as golden compared to other people. I could have been born addicted to drugs, or paralyzed, cerebal palsey, autistic, HIV, or Cancer, there's a million things that could have went wrong. I just happened to be unlucky enough to be the son of devout Jehovah's Witnesses. All these wasted years and oppurtunities, and this system of things is still here. Still fucking here, and doesn't appear to be going anywhere. Its not right what they've done to me, to us. Somebody has to pay for this.
-
irondork
I've been searching the CD library for a statement I KNOW exists because I've seen this sentiment expressed a couple of times in the literature. Alas, (lol - I said, "alas") I am unable to find it.
So I will butcher the statement as best I can here: "What more fitting punishment for those apostates then to be left to wallow in their anger and frustration, knowing there is nothing they can do to stop Jehovah's organziation."
The bottom line is, they are mocking those of us who have been devestated by them. They are hanging us on their walls like trophies, perhaps?
-
Black Sheep
Don't 'tell' the buggers anything.
Ask a question.
If they try to avoid answering it, use psychological warfare to keep them on topic and make them feel guilty for for every dirty trick they try to use to try to weasel their way out of answering your question.
No mercy.
They have to answer your goddam question. Not some other question that they have re-defined. Your question.
Are you disgruntled?
Yes!
Of course you are!
You are disgruntled because they are not answering your question.
You are disgruntled because of whatever dubious tactic they are using to weasel their way out of answering your question.
You are disgruntled because they are using the exact same tactics that they accuse the (paste whatever church they hate here) church uses.
Be offended
Be disgruntled
Just make sure that you have an excuse that they can not deny without looking bad for it.
If you can ............... do it in public ..... so that they have an audience for their bad behaviour.
-
Black Sheep
I might have missed a really important point with my last post.
You don't actually have to be offended/disgruntled/whatever. It is just an act to make your point.
If you are not at the point where it is just an act and you really are offended/disgruntled, you need professional help that you will have a hard time finding on an internet forum.
Cheers
Chris
of the Blues Brews and BBQs class