Mamalove, they did. It will be at the funeral home and my brother will give the "talk". Father and son will be there, but then are having another memorial along with wake to honor Ryan in their own way, which I will attend as well. So sad that things had to turn out the way they did.
J-dub elders throwing a wrench in funeral services for my nephew
That is what matters, to honor and remember him in a dignified way, and hopefully to bring out some of the happy memories.
MIMIMIMI- My wife and my deepest condolences and sympathies to you friend on the loss of your nephew. How sad and tragic. I'm glad arrangements have been made, but it's too bad that such legalistic wrangling has to occur when dealing with elders and their " consciences " - or should I say the LACK of consciences on their part. It's inhumane how they treat non-witness family members , AND their own members really.
I had a close inactive JW friend die in 2003 , hadn't been to meetings for years before, he died, possible suicide, and his non-witness family decided to have the funeral at a mortuary. My friends family and friends ( including myself ) each gave a eulogy in front of about 200 people and over half the crowd were witnesses and some elders showed up. But it was good people got to express nice comments about my deceased friend - it was a loving, memorable occasion and not a WT marketing show.
In answer to Brother Dan's question about " Do not elders have a heart ? " The answer is NO , they do NOT have a heart. They are programmed mind controlled robots sent out on missions by the WT society to destroy families and cause suffering just to follow man made rules.
MIMIMIMI- Please know our hearts are with you through this tragic time my friend. Sincerely, Mr. & Mrs. Flipper
I hate that on top of the heavy burden the tragedy brings, your family has to deal with navigating through WT style legalism. Within the congregation, Ryan was truly one of the "least of these", the ones Jesus says that we must absolutely care for.
I want to share with the ones reading here how wonderful he was. I loved him for all his social awkwardness and quirks. He had a gentle spirit about him. At the Kingdom Hall and the Book Study he would always come up and smile at me - though rarely said much - he was quiet like that. I laughed with a friend today as I remembered his rather unorthodox approach to field service. I accompanied him on a RV and he walked up to the door and rang the door bell. When the householder came to the door, Ryan bowed his head and thrust the latest issues of the WT/Awake! magazine forward to them, not saying a word. The householder took the magazines and before I knew it Ryan was halfway back toward the sidewalk leaving me standing at the door with the householder alone. He placed the magazines without even saying a word.
My final year as a JW wasn't always easy - I was going through quite a bit at the time. We enjoyed going out for pizza after the meeting and on one occasion Ryan was there. As I remember it he handed me a piece of paper with a Bible book/chapter/verse written on it - not saying anything as he did so. When I got home I looked it up and it gave me encouragement, dealing directly with the situation I was in. I was so beside myself to how this young man, who rarely had much to say, would just happen to give me this to look up - particularly as few really new what was going on. I called him up and asked and he didn't really have an answer so I just felt it was one of those "God things" I was beginning to see more and more. I just think in amazement at that - how God used this quiet, awkward young man to be an "angel" (messenger) to me.
I just wanted to share those things. I hate that this has happened and I'm sad about it - but I'm comforted that Ryan is at peace now in Heaven's hands.
Blues Brothers..isn't any suicide done by someone with mental problems? I don't think any "normal " person would consider it..
Good article to refer them too, thanks for posting it.
Also the "We shall see if so and so can do the talk or not..we shall see if we can use the KH or not..we shall see..
What does that mean? It means they still don't have their sh*t together...
They didn't have answers when my Hubby died in 2003 and they still don't...
You would think they would know what they teach by now..
When a girlfriend in the religion was having mental problems I called the brothers to help. Come and pray with her or counsel her or whatever they do. They don't encourage going to a psychologist so they need to be the ones to fix those that get broken right?
Well they send a newly appointed 18 year old to do the counseling..what a joke.
They ended up disfellowshipping her.
I have no respect for their knowledge..it shocks me that someone so smart can be so stupid at the same time.
I am so sorry for your loss.
I am sorry, too, for the heartless way the elders have treated the situation. What came to mind is the FEAR that the JW religion teaches about so many things...including demons, death and suicide....and a whole lot more. Too bad they don't realize that fear is the opposite of love. Does not 1 John 4:18 say that "perfect love throws fear outside"? Their God Jehovah is a God of fear. He wants everyone to fear him. Well, he has a group of followers who do indeed fear him --- and he feeds off of their fear. Fear is how he gains his power. The JWs are a group of fearful followers whose fear Jehovah feeds off of.
When I left the religion in 2000, I realized the only way to heal was to purge myself of all the JW beliefs that promoted fear. Just my two Canadian cents.
Donuthole, thanks for sharing your experiences about the victim. He sounds like a beautiful and thoughtful soul who just could not stand the abuse anymore --- and he perhaps did not know how to communicate that to anyone. I feel he did not die in vain. The lesson will stay behind for others to become more aware of the fearful coldness that the Jehovah's Witnesses are now becoming known for.
Again, my sincere condolances to you and yours, mimimimi,
bump. Sadly, I was unable to attend the funeral this morning. I was working about 10 miles away in a nearby town.
Wonder how it went and who showed and how DF folks were treated by the dubs.
Snakes (Rich )
We attended this morning. We were largely ignored, except for some sideways glances, so no complications there - of course it is so weird when you have former A-Class icons who are disfellowshipped themselves - they dynamic there now is totally different - alien. T.G. (former elder) did greet Rebekah, which was nice. It was good to see some old/familiar faces.
We sat there and listened to the group in front of chatting about the paradise. One lady was talking about how she going to have a pet tiger. (A little bit different from the normal lion.) Another said she was going to raise chickens for eggs. A small debate started about whether or not eggs could be consumed in the paradise or if they were off-limits. It all sounds so very silly to me now - their "hope" is nice, but very shallow.
During the visitation they were playing some non-JW tunes, radio rock songs. The volume was low - it was just background music. Just before service started they played one of those new Kingdom Melodies - I think the one for funerals. A lady behind me snidely quipped, "finally a Kingdom Melody!" and she proceeded to sing along.
Rich (the dad) started the service by reading the obituary. I thought it was admirable that he was permitted to do so since he has been DF'd for years and has very different religious persuasion. Ryan's uncle gave the talk which was short and pretty by the books using the JW outline. He did share a few starting words about Ryan which were nice - but otherwise the service was very dry, the same ones we have always heard.
We didn't attend the luncheon but my understanding is that DF'd family did attend, though they sat by themselves. This is pretty decent since I know of other funerals where DF'd family were asked to leave.
The dad had his own non-JW memorial service afterward which was very nice. Friends and loved ones were able to stand up and share stories about Ryan. It was nice to hear about how he touched lives. I was quite surprised how many friends outside the religion he had. They provided a side of him that I wasn't privileged to hear about - just knowing him from the meetings. Lots of laughs. Lots of tears. I wish JW's services could be more about the individual - it is pretty cathartic to share like this.
We got to have a meal tonight with mimimimi and another of Ryan's aunts and it was good to have an opportunity to chat about Ryan, the family, the congregation, and other things.
glad you and Rebekah were able to be there. I was always sure there was a side of Ryan that we never got to see. Sad that, as a JW, you have to put on this weird JW cloak (they like to call it the "New Personality™" but it should be called the "Cult Personality."
Funny that Former SuperPioneerElder TG is no longer an elder. He should have been booted a long time ago. I attempted to have him removed, but I was in the minority (as in, the only elder calling for it "scripturally" and organizationally) so I was forced to acquiesce to the will (whim) of the BOE and the CO. Ironic that all of those elders are either DF, removed, dead, or just gone.
Creepy the Kingdumb Maladies are played. Even creepier those Paradise™ conversations around you. Glad I don't have to go to those meetings anymore. If Toni and I hadn't had to work, we would have been there.
Snakes (Rich )
I realize this particular situation has many more facets than the issue of suicide, but it made me think:
I never could understand the belief that suicide was an unforgivable sin. Jesus only mentions one unforgivable sin and that's blaspheming the Holy Spirit. (For all you "Blasphemy Challenge" idiots, this doesn't mean doubting the existence of something you don't understand or believe in. But I digress...) The Catholic Church - and many others - insist a suicide goes straight to Hell. Likewise, most JWs believe suicides can't enter the New World. If someone commits suicide it's pretty much a given that they are dead.
For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin. - Rom 6:7
You stop calling defiled the things God has cleansed. - Acts 10:15