Why Is Toasting Wrong? Why Can't You Stand For The National Anthem?...

by minimus 35 Replies latest jw friends

  • minimus
    minimus

    Why can you stand for the pledge of allegiance?

    Why is "whole" blood bad but "blood fractions" permissable?

    Why is eating a bird on Thanksgiving Day a sin?

    WHY did we allow ourselves to accept all the Organization's stupid manmade rules?

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Toasting - Isaiah 65:11 But you who abandon me, your God,
    who forget the holy mountains, Who hold dinners for Lady Luck
    and throw cocktail parties for Sir Fate, ... The Message Bible

    National Anthem - John 17:15-16 Because they didn't join the world's ways,
    Just as I didn't join the world's ways.
    I'm not asking that you take them out of the world
    But that you guard them from the Evil One.
    They are no more defined by the world
    Than I am defined by the world. The Message Bible

    If you view these Scriptures without WT lenses, you'll find there is no justification for WT's interpretation.

    Syl

  • TD
    TD

    The JW view of national anthems is one of the things I've never understood.

    Standing up is not an act of worship. Bowing down is an act of worship. Standing up is a sign of respect.

    You stand up when a judge enters the court. JW's have no problem with that. You're not worshipping the person, you're showing respect for the office.

    Why does the same principle not apply to national anthems? You're not worshipping the flag when you stand. You're showing respect for the country it represents.

    If you can show respect for the office of a judge, why can't you show respect for the country that is the source of the judge's authority?

  • sd-7
    sd-7

    I don't know. Such arbitrary stuff. The toasting issue ruined my wedding reception for me. My brother was harassing me about not allowing my aunt to do a toast, when I (1) didn't care, since, as I told him, we're not holding our glasses up to any supernatural beings, and (2) wasn't going to allow it anyway, because, despite the lack of concern I had for JW beliefs (despite being one myself at the time), I had enough respect for the JWs' consciences there to not let it happen. Still, it got on my nerves because my sister-in-law went behind my back to talk to my wife about it, as if I wasn't going to do anything about the situation. I wasn't able to enjoy the cake-cutting because of all that crap.

    Irony is that we exchanged pagan wedding rings on a day that holds great superstition, Friday the 13th, and he's worried about toasting...

    I remember contributing $800 to his lavish, 100+ guest wedding reception, and getting a broken, used microwave from him as a gift for my wedding. (The d*** door wouldn't close just months after we got the thing home...)

    But the bottom line is...we couldn't do those things because some old dudes wrote some stuff that said we shouldn't do it or God would kill us. Believing them in the absence of actual, tangible divine killing sprees, we listened. If they'd said all that stuff was okay, we wouldn't think about it at all. We got suckered. It sucks.

    --sd-7

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    Who hold dinners for Lady Luck
    and throw cocktail parties for Sir Fate, ...

    It occurs to me that I have never been to a dinner for Lady Luck, nor a cocktail party for Sir Fate.

    (and I have been to some dinners with toasts and more than a few cocktail parties) I have never heard of such things even being done in Vegas or Monte Carlo, as a matter of fact.

    It also occurs to me that whatever the authenticity of that translation, it seems to denounce Lady Luck and Sir Fate rather than the act of making a toast...

  • snowbird
    snowbird
    Why is "whole" blood bad but "blood fractions" permissable?

    Because WT says whole blood is not permissible.

    Why is eating a bird on Thanksgiving Day a sin?

    Again, the no-part-of-the-world mantra.

    WHY did we allow ourselves to accept all the Organization's stupid manmade rules?

    I've asked myself that question over and over. As SD-7 said, "We were suckered."

    Syl

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Ok, here is the NWT take on that Scripture:

    Isaiah 65: 11 “But YOU men are those leaving Jehovah, those forgetting my holy mountain, those setting in order a table for the god of Good Luck and those filling up mixed wine for the god of Destiny. NWT

    This was used by the lady who "studied" the Bible with me to show that toasting and gambling are sinful in Jah's eyes because you're relying on luck instead of Him.

    Syl

  • neverendingjourney
    neverendingjourney
    Why can you stand for the pledge of allegiance?

    Has something changed? I was always told we could stand for the pledge; we could not, however, place our hand over our heart. Every JW I knew, including me, stood for the pledge.

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    Well, I have heard the same thing, Sylvia - also that gambling was wrong because the soldiers "threw lots" over Jesus garments.

    But it is all stretching matter of fact statements into what the Watchtower writers wanted in the first place, rather than the other way around. And there is nothing about that verse to denounce the custom of making a toast to something - especially to something worthwhile or good.

    We should add to Minimus' list -

    Why is it Biblically wrong to smoke tobacco? Moreso - why is it wrong to even farm or sell tobacco? The JWs have no more authority to say this than the Mormons do to outlaw alcohol or caffiene.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Some stand; some don't.

    I always stood out of respect.

    I knew some hardcore JW's who refused to stand, which drew some curious stares.

    At my daughter's college graduation, I didn't because we were seated in the upper section, and the medication I'm taking makes me dizzy.

    Syl

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit