Question for Board/Current JWs re Holy Spirit/holy spirit...

by AGuest 39 Replies latest jw friends

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  AGuest

  May you all have peace!

  In another post, a dear one mentioned that a JW relative ceased being... ummmm... contentious, when the dear one told her that, after praying about it, they were allowing themselves "to be guided by holy spirit and not doctrine from a man-made organization." That the latter felt "wrong."

  I, too, have noticed that when I mention the Holy Spirit, JWs who've come to my door tend to back out of the conversation and make a hasty retreat. One "sister" (who I was speaking with in a stripmall parking lot) responded, "Oh, you listen to the Holy Spirit? Then there's no reason for us to continue"... then abruptly turned and walked away. I remember thinking, "What was up with that?"

  I don't recall a householder's mention of the Holy Spirit being a deterrent... deal-breaker... when I was in. Has something changed/been published/announced/mentioned regarding what to do when one says they are led by the Holy Spirit?

  [Now, that I think about it, there may have been something in the Reasoning Book?... ]

  Just curious, so your comments/responses will be greatly appreciated.

  Again, peace to you... and thank you, in advance!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
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  OUTLAW

  Good Morning Shelby!..

  JW`s don`t listen to the Holy Spirit..They follow the Holy Spirit/WBT$..

  You say..You actually hear the Holy Spirit,who you say is Jesus..

  Hearing spirits in Watchtower World = Hearing Demons..

  (Telling her the Spirit is Jesus,won`t make a Difference)..

  So in Watchtower World..Your Demonized..LOL!!..

  You scared the Crap out of that Woman..

  She is going to hide under her bed for a week..

  

  

  ...................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  AGuest

  LOLOLOLOLOL, dear OUTLAW (and the greatest of love and peace to you, my friend)!

  Actually, I didn't get the impression she/they were scared, at all... although I don't doubt that they've been told to be. All that I've had that experience with have been African American (the KH nearest to our house is predominantly AA/Hispanic). I've actually been able to get into some very lengthy conversations with most of them. See, for the most part African Americans aren't that afraid of spirits... except maybe the "bad" ones "conjured" by voodoo (yes, I know, there's always exceptions, particularly those with a long WTBTS history). Most African Americans, however, very much believe in spirits... and particularly the Holy Spirit/holy spirit. So, the spirit world/realm/spirits are not all that... ummm... frightening to them. Given that our ancestors were greatly involved in ancestor worship and calling upon the spirits of the dead... and so a belief in/reverence for spirits... it's really not that big of a deal to most of us. Indeed, that's why so many tend to be Baptist, Pentecostal, COGIC, and other "faiths" that believe in the "anointing" and direct/indirect communication with/from the spirit realm. (Note, I didn't, before becoming a JW... as my father, who raised me, wasn't religious at all - because of HIS father - and certainly didn't while a JW. I only came to believe/understand when "something" occurred with me personally. I digress.).

  Same is true for non-European Hispanics, for the most part. Their culture celebrates Dia de la Muerta, which is similar to some things many African Americans believe. Probably due to the commonality of the regions they share[d] (i.e., Carribean, Central/South America, etc.)

  Now, I'd have NO problem believing she/they were actually scared if they had been white/european. Probably the color draining from their faces (which I have seen, among JWs) would have been a clue. "Spirits" in the white/european culture are usually vile and evil... and/or have some sort of negative agenda (like scaring the stuffing out of people just because).

  I could be wrong, of course, but I get the impression they were ending discussions because that is what they were "instructed" to do. Seems "odd" to me that they would all do it... and pretty much in the same manner. Hopefully, someone who knows will weigh in and clear this up.

  But thanks for the laugh, as always. You have SOME "funny" bone, you do, dear one!

  Peace to you!

  Your servant, friend, and a slave of Christ,

  Shel
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  journey-on

  This is the thought that has been given to me. JWs, in general, are confused or uncertain about what it means to "grieve the H]holy/S]spirit" mentioned in Eph. 4:30. (The NWT uses lower case while other translations such as the NIV use upper case.) Even though the WTS has put their slant on it, much discussion has been made as to what things might actually constitute "grieving". None of them can answer with absolute certainty what that means in its entirety.

  That chapter of Ephesians (after mentioning the above) goes on to talk about putting away all bitterness, anger, abusive speech, etc. and to become kind and compassionate and freely forgiving. When you say with certainty that you are being guided by holy spirit, they stop in their tracks out of fear or uncertainty that any condemnation of your claim or any criticism might fall into the category of "grieving the Holy Spirit".
• 

  AGuest

  Yes, I did receive that, as well, dear JO (again, peace to you!) and that does appear to be the case, too. I mean, no blood draining from faces (well, not that I can see - LOLOLOLOL!), but I absolutely get that there's a personal "fear" in, well, "going against" the Holy Spirit. I can totally "feel" that coming from them, as well.

  BUT... something in the WAY they do it leads me to believe that it's been discussed... and instructions have been handed out. So, I am curious about that. If not, no problem, of course. I'll give it a day or so and see if anyone who's still "in" has some "light" on the matter. If not, then what you've been given is sufficient for me, of course ("at the mouth of two witnesses") - and makes total sense, especially given that these are African Americans. Totally!

  THANK you... and again, peace to you!

  Your servant and fellow slave of Christ,

  SA
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  journey-on

  A side thought: Saying that you listen to the Holy Spirit conjures (no pun intended :-) up an entirely different feeling and/or response than saying you are borne along by holy spirit.

  I'm saddened that I can't just pick up the phone and call my sister and ask her if JWs have been formally instructed on how to respond to that statement. But, that's the way it is with her and me. We can't ever really have a meaty discussion about such things. It has to stay mundane for me to have any sort of relationship with her.
• 

  AGuest

  Saying that you listen to the Holy Spirit conjures (no pun intended :-) up an entirely different feeling and/or response than saying you are borne along by holy spirit.

  Yes, it does, dear JO (again, peace to you!). Another side thought, though, to your statement that:

  When you say with certainty that you are being guided by holy spirit, they stop in their tracks out of fear or uncertainty that any condemnation of your claim or any criticism might fall into the category of "grieving the Holy Spirit".

  Grieving... OR blaspheming against... that Spirit. The latter which they also believe is "unforgivable." Which is why I wonder if there's been a warning of some sort (seeing as those who lead them know that THEY aren't truly led... or in union... with such spirit. Particularly the non-"anointed" leaders. I remember Carey Barber's "terrified" expression when he realized that I realized he wasn't anointed... in any sense of the word other than by the WTBTS)...

  May your sister realize HER loss, dear JO, and wake up... soon!

  Again, peace to you!

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  wasblind

  Hey there Shelby, here's what it says on page 384 in the reasoning book

  If someone says-

  ' Do you have the holy spirit (or the Holy Ghost) ? '

  You might reply: ' Yes, and that is why I have come to your door today. (Acts 2:17,18)

  Or you could say: ' That is what makes it possible for me to share in the christian ministry. But I find that not everyone has the same idea as to what gives evidence that a person really has God's spirit. What do you look for? Then perhaps add: ( discussion of some of the material on pages 381,382)

  On page 381 under the heading What is the holy spirit?

  It states: " It is not a person but is a powerful force that God emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will. "

  on page 381 under the heading What gives evidence that a person really has the holy spirit, or the Holy Ghost ?

  it states: Luke 4:18 31-35: " Jehovahs spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare the good news."

  they also qoute Acts 1:8

  On page 382 they quote Luke 1:41,42 Acts 4:31

  " Likewise today, boldness in speaking the word of God, zealously engaging in the work of witnessing these are what give evidence that a person has holy spirit."

  the Oct 1, 2010 WT has a whole section about the holy spirit too. hope this helps
• 

  AGuest

  Yes, dear Wuz (peace to you!)... I think I remember these (i.e., what JWs are to say when someone asks THEM if they have holy spirit... which we all know they don't... not just because of their "works" but because it would the person responding affirmatively would be "anointed"...).

  I just curious what the direction (if any) might be when someone tells them (JWs) that they (the someone) have received it, is led and taught by him by means of it, knows it to be the Christ and so listens to him (which their leaders have blaspemously disregarded when they changed it at 2 Cor. 3:17 - because there is (1) holy spirit, which is the life force, breath, blood and semen of God... and then there is (2) the Holy Spirit, which is Christ), etc.

  Could be that I've read more into what I've experienced. I don't think so, but could be. COULD be that it's just related to this particular congregation or the local area (you know, where some "in the know CO, PO, or other 'respected elders'" has put in his two cents). Lord knows they do have their local "protocols", as well.

  No worries, though, dear one - I was just curious is all.

  Again, peace to you!

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
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  Palimpsest

  I feel like it's a familiarity issue. JWs don't fear the Holy Spirit, but it's something that's discussed so infrequently in their meetings that it doesn't immediately register. Also, depending on your region, "Holy Spirit" or "Holy Ghost" can draw an automatic mental association with Pentecostals or born-agains, even if you believe in the Holy Spirit (as JWs do). I can remember immediately thinking, "Oh, they must be Pentecostal" whenever someone at a door mentioned the Holy Spirit. So perhaps that's it?