Contradictions, should we really care?

by garyneal 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs



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  • clarity

    Garyneal hi,

    It's a bit frustrating isn't it. Wow you can tell a JW, ..but you can't tell them much!

    Don't provide any resistance to what she says.

    If blood transfusions are out, & only some fractions are OK to use, then ask if she would like you to drive her down to donate her blood for that. If not her, then who?

    Do they wonder just how much blood must be drawn to get those fractions? How much has to be dumped? (and not on the ground!)

    Try to (overly) accomodate her every jw belief. Maybe the gears will start turning.


  • AGuest

    Good day, GaryNeal, and the greatest of love and peace to you!

    Sometimes we forget that, like career convicts, there are those who cannot, should not, or do not know how to live... free. To help you understand, I will use sheep. Sheep are like this: they cannot, should not, and really don't know how... to live free. The first two (I will address the third later) is because they are fairly defenseless animals that are routinely subject to predatory animals. And so, they require "shepherds" - to fend off the wolves, lions, coyotes, etc. (Note, goats are subject to such predators, too; however, goats will fight (head butt) where sheep usually won't even run and if they do, it isn't for long or very far). They are defenseless because they are, for the most part, very docile animals. Excluding dogs, they're pretty much the only animal that will stand almost completely still while you shave all of their coat off (even most dogs have to be trained to stand still - other animals need to be roped/tied/bridled, etc.). Dogs work good with sheep, however, because they "nip" and "bark" at the sheep, which FORCE the sheep to do what or go where the dogs want. Otherwise, sheep pretty much just "wander"... carefree and defenseless.

    For this, some would ridicule sheep as being "stupid" animals. I thought that, too, once. But I have come to learn that sheep aren't stupid; they are just sheep - they're just inherently not as "alert"... or nervous... or suspicious, etc., as other animals. They weren't "made" that way; rather, they are the "lambs" of the animal world and thus don't go through their day in great jitters and anxiety for their lives. If they thought/acted like, say, goats, they would be... well, goats. Or horses. Or whathaveyou. But not sheep. They act like sheep... because that's what they are.

    Those who belong to Christ... are referred to as "sheep." Others are, too. Both, however, if they recognize that they are sheep, realize that they are not only pretty defenseless, but not the "kind" of animal that would take on the wolves, lions, coyotes, etc. Some, that they won't even run. They realize that, for all intent and purposes, they really are very docile and so in danger of being "devoured." They don't have bodies designed to fight... OR run. And so they realize they need a "shepherd." Are grateful for them, actually.

    Problem is... there are two kinds of shepherds: one that will fight off the wolves, lions, etc., even to the loss of their own lives, in order to protect the sheep (which is usually the case when one owns the sheep himself)... and one that will abandon the sheep, indeed run for cover to save his own hide, when he sees a wolf, lion, etc. (which is usually the case when ones doesn't own the sheep - people tend to take better care of their own belongings, more so than that belonging to others).

    The difference between the two kinds of sheep is in the "shepherd" they follow. As you can guess, I am going to say that there is only One who fits the first description, at least with regard to PEOPLE who are "sheep."

    The third thing I mentioned regarding sheep is knowing how to live free. Because their docile nature makes them prime prey, sheep don't really know how to live free: they don't inherently know to be on the alert, to run, to hide, to fight, to avoid crags and cliffs, and all of the other dangers in the "field." And you cannot teach it to them. They are sheep.

    But that doesn't mean they can't live free. They can... if they have the right "shepherd": one that "runs interference" FOR them... that sounds the alarm and blows the whistle FOR them... BEFORE the wolf or lion... or crag/cliff... ever comes near. For all intent and purposes such sheep can actually live free. They can "wander" through the "field" without fear or trepidation... or danger. Which is what true freedom is, isn't it... freedom from fear? Which is really all they want to do.

    Your wife is a sheep... i.e., one that needs a shepherd ("someone" to tell her where to go, what to do, protect her from the "dangers" in the "field"). The question is what kind of sheep... and what kind of shepherd? The kind that follows a shepherd that will give his life for her... and did? Or the kind that will follow shepherds who will not only run and hide at the first sign of danger, but will actually deliver her over to a predator in order to save their own skin? That is something for her to decide... and no one else.

    In the meantime, however, you might be able to lower YOUR frustration and anxiety by recognizing... and accepting... that she is a sheep (at least, as it appears for now)... and loving her in spite of that (appearance of "weakness")... and stop trying to "wish" her a goat (or horse, or anything other than a sheep). Regardless of which "shepherd" she follows.

    I hope this helps and I bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ... and one of his "sheep"...


  • garyneal

    I hear what you are saying, Shelby. Sometimes I don't know why I do what I do, in regards to my wife. Perhaps it is because I don't want my children to grow up with the same fears my wife has. Perhaps it is because I see her being so torn between wanting to do things that are 'fun' and wanting to serve God through this man made organization. Perhaps it is because I want some semblence of 'normalcy' in my household. Perhaps it is because I am concerned that I will lose a child in death over their ridiculous blood doctrine.

    My wife will say things like, "I don't like being told what to do." So I find it very VERY ironic that she will associate with a religion that is all about telling people what to do. I often find that she ignores my advice on practical things (like pay attention to speed limit signs) and winds up with so many tickets and points on her driving record that she is in danger of losing her license. Yet, she will believe almost without question the ever changing doctrines of the Watchtower Society. She does not admit it now, but back when I first told her about the new light on the generation teaching (3 months in advance) she was livid and told me that I needed to stay away from apostate lies and the like. After reading the article, she believed it. (To quote that South Park cartoon on Joseph Smith, "Dum dum dum dum dum.")

    So as far as her being a 'sheep,' I guess the only time she acts like it is when it comes to Watchtower doctrines. Personally, I would've thought that if your hope in an everlasting life was based on the teachings of a holy writ, then it would make the most sense to read that holy writ yourself to see if your personal beliefs are in sync. Yet, when I asked her to read the Bible ALONE together, she accused me of 'leaning on my own understanding.'

  • Hoffnung

    Hello Garyneal,

    Actually I believe you are well on track. The believe system of the Witnesses is a house of cards. To get the 1st card to drop is always the most difficult. If you keep on gently rocking the boat, sooner or later it will happen. In the mean time, you can learn a lot of the techniques of the GB. they never confront you: this is new light, swallow. They gently guide your thinking into their conclusion, the convincing part, the individual Witness does him or herself. You can use that very same technique, use some question, like: can you show from the greek scriptures alone the hope of an earthly paradise, leave the proving of their doctrines to them. and maybe she will see for herself how farfetched some doctrines are. Once the 1st card dropped the rest will come as well as long as you gently keep on rocking the boat. Please note that at the moment in the theocratic ministry school there is assignment after assignment how to give a reply to questions about changing doctrines etc. If you ask the standard question, you will also get the standard preprepped answer.

  • Hoffnung

    Keep emailing newspaper articles to your wife about child abuse in the organization or casualties of the no blood policy. The sheer amount of them is overwhelming. They pop up on this board every now and then as you know.

  • AGuest

    Your fears are valid and absolutely understandable, dear Gary (again, peace to you!). And your comments regarding her hypocrisy is totally believable - I don't think I know of a group of people in my lifetime that wears that badge more. Could you, perhaps, try beating her at her own "game"? I mean, Biblically speaking, anyone who has an "unbelieving mate" is supposed to endeavor to "win" that mate... "without a word." By their own conduct versus trying to change the other mate's conduct/beliefs. Your wife most probably believes that that's what she is doing as to you. Perhaps you could discuss with her that you just don't see her living her beliefs... which appears to you to be hypocritical... but since you love her and don't want to judge, you're just going to try and live your beliefs from this point, rather than trying to "change" hers? I don't believe she will be able to resist "watching" you "live"... and comparing with herself. JWs take a lot "pride" in thinking that they are "better" (metophorically)... or at least live "better"... and others.

    You must realize, however, that you will have to walk the talk... and that any "stumble" in your walk... regardless of how small... will only justify and perhaps further blind her to her own hypocrisy...

    Whatever tack you eventually take, however, if any at all, I bid you peace... you and your household.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,


  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    My wife tried casting aspersions on my character a few days ago when I was reciting a Watchtower doctrine that made them sound like a cult.

    Two days later a highly respected Elder spouted the same doctrine in a conversation with us.

    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

  • Ding

    To a JW, the WTBTS never contradicts itself.

    It just receives "new light."

  • Terry

    A magic trick won't work without misdirection.

    You've been misdirected!

    You actually think this is about contradiction. It isn't.

    It is about LOYALTY.

    All the written material and verbal instruction at the Kingdom Hall consists of creating LOYALTY to the MEN who identify themselves as stand-ins for JEHOVAH.

    End of story. New paragraph.

    The particular instances of dissonace, contradiction, conflict and illogic mean nothing at all in the face of the necessity of LOYALTY.

    "Who are you going to trust: Governing Body--or your lying eyes?"

    That's the T-shirt JW's have to wear.

    The emotional attachment has been created as a wedge between you and your wife.

    LOYALTY wins every time because it means life or death to JW's everywhere.

    Forget all the clever arguments, proofs, disproofs, comparisons and refutations and concentrate on your real enemy: LOYALTY.

    You start with the role of a wife vis a vis her husband.

    You and you alone are your wife's HEAD (according to her silly belief system.)

    Jesus is YOUR head. If she wants to know the proper understanding of scripture she can't make an end-run around YOU.

    The Governing Body is provoking her to do JUST THAT VERY THING! They teach her (oh so subtly) to listen--not to her husbandly head--but, to THEM instead.

    You have to listen to YOUR head: Jesus and NOT the Governing Body.

    So, get busy. Pray to your head (Jesus). He will tell you to tell her not to pay any attention to those men behind the curtain!

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