JW says "how could anyone learn the truth with only a bible" (page 3)

Yan Bibiyan

JWs claim an unbroken lineage of "True Christians" from 33CE onward ending with them in modern times.

Soooo, how did "True Christians" prior to Russell became such WITHOUT the aid of Watchtowers and junk and obviously with the Bible alone?

I am gobsmacked. I am so enthused by all the brilliant reasoning & support you have given here ... my eyes seem to be tearing up, sincerely, thank you all. I can't wait to use it to help someone reason themselves right out of the borg!

Awakened - thanks for your honesty & help. As a matter of fact, I was afraid that's where I had to look next.

Paha - why didn't I think of that example, thank you!! Amazing what happens with a group 'think'.

T P T - 1 Cor3:5-9, I'm really thinking about it, so helpful. Thank you. Kept reading to the end vs23 "in turn you belong to Christ(not an organization); Christ in turn, belongs to God."(not gb). Glad you sent me there!

PSacramento - the idea of 'only one organization' is planted in our head so tight, bits of it stay stuck for quite a while. I realize at this moment, I had a little dissonance still, regarding this. Scary! Your words are a terrific antidote! Thanks for writing them:

"It is being spread by missionaries, by books, by TV and by the internet, by word of mouth and by example.

People in almost every country of the world hve acces to the bible ( in its many forms).

I have traveled a bit, though not as much as others here probably and I have yet to find a place where no one has heard of Jesus and God"

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Ding - glad you hung on with me, thanks a lot.

I also kept on reading further in Rom ch10 ...vs 20. "I was found by those who were not seeking me; I became manifest to those who were not asking for me."

It is perfect! Thank you so much for sending me there again! Love the Russel quotes.

Darth - how nice you've come my rescue! Philip & the Eunich is such a good example. So if Jesus rebuked the apostle, 'help' isn't from an exclusive organization. Thanks Darth.

Yan Bibiyan - (love to know the roots of your avatar)

Great example Yan, wonderful. Many thanks for your thoughtfullness.

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gratefully,

clarity

stapler99

The answer that a JW would give might be like this...

"The churches of Christendom have over-complicated the simple truth of the Bible! Honest-hearted ones who thirst after the clean waters of truth can discern by regular Bible study God's message for us in our day. Rather than being mired in obtuse, false dogma like hellfire and the Trinity, they are comforted by Jehovah God's loving promise of a new world soon to come.* They identify the only organization on earth fulfilling Christ's command to "make disciples" and are priviliged to gladly partake in this life-saving work."

* For further information, take a day for a year...

In other words, if you don't agree 100% with JW dogma you are being unreasonable. If you don't update your views when they change their mind, you are showing "independent thinking." Members of other Christian churches are trapped in false doctrine, by the same tyrannical organization that burned heretics at the stake and went beyond what the Bible said by saying the Earth didn't move. If you interpret the scriptures that do, in fact, mention heavenly resurrection, hellfire, the earth not moving, etc., you are being deliberately obtuse, because *obviously* these scriptures weren't supposed to be taken literally...

PSacramento

JWs claim an unbroken lineage of "True Christians" from 33CE onward ending with them in modern times.

Correct: WT->Russell->Adventists movement->Protestant reformation-> RCC-> 1st disciples of the apostles-> aspostles-> Christ.

Soooo, how did "True Christians" prior to Russell became such WITHOUT the aid of Watchtowers and junk and obviously with the Bible alone?

They read the bible, they discussed, they argued, they debated, they prayed to the HS for guidence, somtimes they were right, sometimes they were wrong, inother words, they were Human.

carla

You have no need for any man to teach you, unless you have fired the Holy Spirit as the jw's have

1 John 2:27

New Living Translation (©2007)
But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true--it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ.

Yan Bibiyan

Carla,

Even the badly botched up NWT translation (below) is hard to interpret as: "You need the Watchtower and magazines to teach you"

1 John 2:27 "And as for YOU, the anointing that YOU received from him remains in YOU, and YOU do not need anyone to be teaching YOU; but, as the anointing from him is teaching YOU about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught YOU, remain in union with him. "

Clarity, ask a JW to read this to you from THEIR Bible and then explain it. If they try to skirt around the "anointed" wording, ask if the Anointed can just read the Bible.

Awakened at Gilead

Clarity,

If you're a former JW you were fooled once. How do you know that the writers of the Bible were not as wacky as CTR, da judge, or Freddy? May I suggest you do some research into the origins of both the OT and the NT before you decide to spread the good book to others? Also, do research about why non-believers have chosen such a path.

Thanks for being open minded. (But don't open your mind too much cuz then your brain will fall out - Tim Minchin)

clarity

Hi Tim, yes I have been fooled once.

Don't misunderstand my intentions. I am out.

I am trying to answer a JW in a language that will not make them turn off.

It is not important for me, at this point, that the bible be the only right guide. Neither do I care how mankind gets to hear about God, or Budda for that matter. I do now consider myself a Christian.

My friend is still caught up in watchtower brain wash, as in - the REAL preaching can only be done by JW's, - gods only true religion! Therefore my words need to satisfy that 'frame of mind'.

Thanks for your interest Tim.

Yan Bibiyan - good idea thanks. I'm putting together questions and answers that hopfully will open ears & eyes so my friend can see the the delusion.

clarity

Hi Stapler99 - They do have a lot of comebacks, don't they! It is so hard not to be Brazen, lol. thanks.

Carla - thanks for showing the NLT version! 1John2:27 wonderful scripture, explains so much!

clarity

The_Present_Truth

Clarity ... that's why, if you notice, I'm quoting from the NWT. Remember when the Organization taught us where to find the name Jehovah in other translations of the Bible so we could show the householder from their own Bible that they trusted that it was so. Same with a JW. Nothing is more damning to the beliefs of JW's than reading the words from their own publications. What the rare few actually do, is lay out the books on a table and establish a chronology of failed reasonings, false prophecies, and false speculation in one sitting. They'll get a bit here, a bit there, looking primarily at fresh reasonings in comparison to each other and what they've most recently heard. There are JW's today that have never seen some of the older literature. They bought into the new stuff and have no clue what the origins of their current religion are. They've done virtually no due diligence on the belief system they've committed their lives to. Scary!

Please keep us posted on how your conversation goes with your friend.

JW says "how could anyone learn the truth with only a bible"

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