My story/Proof of cross?

by FifthOfNovember 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • FifthOfNovember
    FifthOfNovember

    Hi all, I've been reading this site for several weeks and I really liked the community and it seems like a good place where I discuss my concerns openly.

    About me:

    I've been studying since elementary school, I became an unbaptized publisher in elementary school too. I currently am in high school. About two years ago I began having doubts. Not about Jehovah's Witnesses specifically, but God and religion in general. First it began with the Genesis account, only two people existed at one time? A global flood? Satan speaking through a snake? I am a person who loves science and technology and none of this made sense. After a while, the only thing keeping me believing in God was when I thought about the universe. It's vastness, laws, and beauty. Everything was so precise. I thought, "How could everything be so perfect on earth for life?" Then I realized something, if things WEREN'T perfect we wouldn't be here. Things HAVE to be perfect for life. And when we look at these perfect conditions we assume there must have been a creator.

    Now that seems obvious but think about it. Consider the size of the universe, billions upon billions of galaxies, in those galaxies, billions upon billions of stars, each with objects orbiting them. Is it really that ridiculous to assume that in all that vastness there wouldn't be a single planet suitable for life? In fact, in our own galaxy, scientists have discovered a planet which is the perfect distance from it's own sun, they say they are almost 100% sure life exists there. http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/30/100-percent-chance-for-life-on-newly-found-planet/?iref=allsearch

    I often think about the universe and our own existence and I can only come to the conclusion that I don't believe in God. This is the first time these words have ever been out of my own thoughts

    Anywaaay, that's why I feel the way I do, there are other reasons, but that's one of my big ones.

    A bit more about me, I've never been a good witness. I always associate with "worldy" people, I play violent video games, swear, I've even been drunk (not pass out drunk, but tipsy/slur words drunk), I've never smoked and have no intentions to. I haven't been out in service for a couple months, my meeting attendance is dropping, so I suppose I've started my fading. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is completely off the subject but last night I was doing some research into the cross/stake debate and here are my findings. Feel free to point out my flaws, it wasn't the most thorough research in the world.

    Okay,

    1) According to the reasoning book, "The Greek word rendered “cross” in many modern Bible versions (“torture stake” in NW) is stau?ros′. In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale. Later it also came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau?ros′], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

    a) I dislike that the source of this information was 136 years old. It especially bothers me when the society uses older sources for their science quotes.

    2) It states that "stauros" was formerly used to mean stake. 3) Matthew 27:40 mentions the cross/stake Jesus was killed on. 4) According to the All Scripture Inspired book, the book of Matthew was completed in 41 CE. 5) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stauros States that the writers of first century BCE were using stauros to mean cross. a) I realize wikipedia isn't always the best source which is why I am concerned the research may be flawed. 6) This means that by the time Matthew wrote his book, the term stauros meant cross. 7) Why would Matthew use outdated language while writing? Please let me know if there is anything I overlooked!
  • FifthOfNovember
    FifthOfNovember

    I don't mean to sound like an evil person with the "I've never been a good witness" part.

    I suppose I've just been living a double life. I give 5 minute talks, and used to be frequent out in service, comment, etc. but home was a different story. My parents are not involved with JW's.

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Welcome FifthOfNovember!

    I was drawn into the discussion regarding stauros with a couple of JWs at my house once.

    They were telling me of course that the words means "stake".

    I asked them what the Greek word for "cross" is. They didn't know.

    1 Corinthians 1:18 (New International Version)

    Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom

    18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

    Blessing in Christ,

    Stephen

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    welcome and congratulations! your gray matter is working. read on and enjoy your life. you just saved your life

  • cherrypye
    cherrypye

    Welcome and congratulations. You sound like a very intelligent person...keep putting that critical thinking to good use and asking questions. Your history with the witnesses can enrich your future...as long as you keep the witnesses in the past. Seems like you have excellent written and likely verbal communication skills...couple that with a love of science and you're a double threat!!!

    By the way, it doesn't sound like you were a bad witness...it sounds like you're an extremely well-behaved teenager.

    Have you started making plans for college yet?

  • potleg
    potleg

    Glad to hear you're breaking free. Don't look back, onward and upward.

  • tenyearsafter
    tenyearsafter

    Hi FofN!

    Welcome to the Board...you will find it a place of diverse beliefs and opinions held together with the common thread of some type of exposure to JW's.

    I once wrestled with the cross/stake debate. Using a bit of common sense, I lean toward the cross beam interpretation based primarily on the logic of how Jesus went to his execution. For his implement of execution to have been an upright stake, it would have had to have been of adequate girth to support his weight and long enough to have been placed in the ground with enough stability to not fall over with the lop-sided weight distribution a man's weight would have on the center of gravity of that pole. A conservative guess would be that such a pole would have to weigh several hundred pounds to accommodate both those requirements. Now the Bible accounts in Matthew, Luke and Mark indicate that Jesus started to drag his tortue stake to Golgotha and then it was carried the balance of the way by Simon of Cyrenne...does it seem realistic that a man that had endured constant beatings and scourgings throughout the night could then drag a wood pole weighing hundreds of pounds, even a short distance, through the city? Even an able-bodied man like Simon would struggle under such a load. It would seem much more reasonable that he carried a lighter cross beam to the execution site where the upright pole was already buried and in place. That pretty much cinched it for me.

    More importantly is not the cross versus stake argument, a WT red herring, but rather what that crucifixion meant. Does it really matter what shape the instrument of his death was?...I would offer that the end, not the means is what God would want people to focus on. Once again, JW's try to be different by emphasizing non-issues.

  • FifthOfNovember
    FifthOfNovember

    That's an excellent point tenyearsafter!

  • cherrypye
    cherrypye

    Wow, that WAS a great point!

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Welcome fithofnovember. Glad you woke up before committing.

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