I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

by EdenOne 284 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  sunny23

  I stopped reading at page 6 but EdenOne, You keep saying that Atheism makes claims to Gods non-existence. This is false. There may be atheist people who go so far as to make such claims but Atheism as a whole, by definition, and according to the many atheists I know, make no such claims to non-existence. Any atheist who goes so far as to try and prove a negative has made a serious logical mistake. Don't forget the burden of proof lies with the one making a positive claim (a claim of somethings existence). An atheist by definition just sits back and waits for proof and evidence and until then lacks belief in any deity until such evidence arises. They DO leave room for God.

  from Atheists.org.....
  

  Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God." Some dictionaries even go so far as to define Atheism as "wickedness," "sinfulness," and other derogatory adjectives. Clearly, theistic influence taints dictionaries. People cannot trust these dictionaries to define atheism. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as "there is no God" betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read "there are no gods."

  Why should atheists allow theists to define who atheists are? Do other minorities allow the majority to define their character, views, and opinions? No, they do not. So why does everyone expect atheists to lie down and accept the definition placed upon them by the world’s theists? Atheists will define themselves.

  Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion. While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. Two commonly used retorts to the nonsense that atheism is a religion are: 1) If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color, and 2) If atheism is a religion then health is a disease. A new one introduced in 2012 by Bill Maher is, "If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sexual position."

  http://atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism?
  
• 

  Twitch

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uAR4nb3TLg

  Some funny stuff :)
• 

  EdenOne

  Sunny23,

  If you had read past page 6 you would see that I have addressed that question and made a distiction between 'strong atheism' and 'skepticism' and provided references. There's no shortage of atheists who emphatically deny the existence of deities, but usually they hide behind a softer skeptical mask - until they are pushed a little bit to the edge. At that point, their arrogance surfaces and they blatantly disrespect and insult other people's ideas as if they're entitled to it. There are some notable examples right here in this forum. I call a spade a spade. The only true atheist is the one who emphatically denies the existence of deities. A skeptical who awaits evidence is neither a true atheist nor an agnostic in the classical sense of the term ("god, if exists, is unknowable"). All this discussion around the term absentheism is just a thought provoking discussion to see if open ended skepticism can stop being hijacked by strong atheism. I never intended that it became an overly serious academic debate. There are other venues for that. But some can't help it and take themselves too seriously ...

  Any atheist who goes so far as to try and prove a negative has made a serious logical mistake

  No kidding? Someone better tell that to Mr. Cofty.
  
  

  Cofty: Go ahead and define any "god" you like and it's non-existence can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt.

  Eden
• 

  cofty

  No kidding? Someone better tell that to Mr. Cofty. - Eden1

  I have explained repeatedly that I would not make the blanket assertion that no god of any sort could possibly exist. It has now got to the stage where it cannot be that you just don't understand that. You are clearly now lying.

  Define any specific god and then we can show why that god does not exist.

  You refuse to define how you are using the word god. Once a word becomes a vacuous noise it is impossible to prove it does not exist.

  I have repeated this at lest 3 or 4 times. Stop lying about my position and address your own fallacies.
• 

  EdenOne

  You refuse to define how you are using the word god.

  Either you can't read, or you won't read, or you're lying, because I gave you a definition on page 14 of this thread, listing the traits of a deity that can be described as akin to the Christian god.

  Define any specific god and then we can show why that god does not exist.

  Compare with an earlier one:

  Go ahead and define any "god" you like and it's non-existence can be proven

  These two statements aren't the same. In the earlier one you challenge me to define "any god I like" - so I went ahead and gave you two - one that I liked, listing its desirable traits, which, as I'm sure wouldn't escape you, are akin to the Christian god; and another, the roman emperor-god Augustus. Oh, and also the sun-god Aten.

  And you still kept crying for me to define a god for you to debunk. Well, that's the point: I gave you two examples of deities whose existence is attested. You don't get to pick what deity is meaningful and what deity isn't, just so you can make it fit in your model. It was meaningful to millions of people, who worshipped, erected temples and sustained a priesthood for these deities.

  But on your recent statement you introduce a subtle, but important change: You want me to provide a specific god. I can understand why. Because you know you can't prove beyond any reasonable doubt that deities, of any kind, don't exist. You may feel confident that deities that have been worshiped up until now don't exist, but you realize you made a serious logical mistake and yes indeed you made a blanket statement regarding the non-existence of deities. The mere possibility that there may exist deity or deities that don't fit specifically any previous model destroys your proposition, and demonstrated that you're not a skeptic, you're a dogmatic atheist.

  Stop lying

  Stop being intellectually dishonest.
  

  Eden
• 

  fukitol

  Come on guys, just admit 'God' was ancient aliens

  
• 

  cofty

  I gave you a definition on page 14 of this thread

  There are only 11 pages in this thread. That's 10 pages more than it deserves.

  Many posters explained to you why Aten did not exist except in the deluded minds of Egyptians.

  yes indeed you made a blanket statement regarding the non-existence of deities

  Specific quote in context please.
• 

  fukitol

  Do you guys know what 'sophistry' means?
  
• 

  Ruby456

  EdenOne has put rationality and empiricism at the heart of his enquiry and that's what makes his pov worth examining.

  Looking for empirical evidence for God's non existence means that the evidence should be of a sort that can be checked by each and everyone of us. We cannot do this to prove God's non-existence so we cannot say categorically that he does not exist. So at this point all we can do is what Christopher Hitchens recommends

  "And here is the point , about myself and my co-thinkers...We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free enquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake. We do not hold our convictions dogmatically"

  God not Great:How Religion Poisons Everthing p.5

  In that spirit all we can do is reach a consensus. We do not need to browbeat our opponents into submission or into leaving this site. Cofty, Surely you can see that EdenOne is a co-thinker and can respect rationality and empiricism?
• 

  cofty

  Do you guys know what 'sophistry' means? - fukital

  If I have used deceitful, false arguments then please point out where.