I'm an ABSENTHEIST. Are you also?

by EdenOne 284 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • galaxie
    galaxie

    For me the real issue is not whether theistic or deist gods exist or that they may possess supernatural influence...it's whether the person who holds such a belief if challenged can justify their position given that their belief stems from within themselves, begging the question..why the need?

    The claims of theists or deists re the workings of their gods,influence and requirement of obeisance or you will suffer by punishment of death or that your crops will fail are imo reasons to confront and demand evidence for such given that many people past and present have been killed,punished,ostracized made to feel unworthy because they are seen to have failed to meet whatever the human brain conceived gods standard is.

    The absence of such a god ( as in non existant in a particular scenario) is really irrelevant. To call oneself an absentheist is as relevant as saying..im an absentoxygenist because oxygen is absent in an experiment with certain gases. The oxygen may not be present in the experiment but proof can be provided that it does exist outwith,whereas to say god is absent but still not be able to provide proof that said being exists outwith the subject which prompts the condition of its absence is surely a misuse of the word and is irrelevant in a discussion of the existence of god or gods (outwith mans perceptions of themselves as gods or physical forms of gods or idols )which are supernatural and of which there is zero proof

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    Wizzstick,

    The Dictionary.com defines "deity" as: "1. A god or goddess 2. divine character or nature, especially that of the Supreme Being; divinity 3. the estate or rank of a god 4. a person or thing revered as a god or goddess 5. the Deity, God; Supreme Being."

    I gave you one possible definition of deity, attested by a definition that can be found in a dictionary. I gave the example of Augustus in ancient Rome, and the cult of the emperor. And yet, you refuse to accept it as a valid example of a deity that empirically existed. You or I may not personally ascribe that deity any special power, but millions of people in the ancient roman empire did. It's therefore, a relevant example.

    Eden

  • undercover
    undercover
    I'm an apatheist. I just don't give a shit...
  • cofty
    cofty
    absence
    ˈabs(ə)ns/
    noun
    1. the state of being away from a place or person.
  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    Cofty,

    I gave you the definition from the Merriam-Webster, which directly contradicts your thesis:

    Absence: "A state or condition in which something expected, wanted or looked for is not present or doesn't exist".

    Rather than being evidence of existence, "absence" is actually closer to non-existence. But fact is, absence is merely the condition of not being present. Tout court.

    Just because A may include B, doesn't mean that A equals B.

    Eden

  • azor
    azor

    I just don't as a policy believe in made up words. One is either a theist, deist, atheist, or agnostic. I'm sure there are other accepted definitions that break into one of these 4.

    This seems like trying to have your cake and eating it to.

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    Azor, it's more than just discussing semantics. There are several layers to this discussion, as I'm sure you can appreciate.

    eden

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    edenOne

    quite a few here (myself included) have found that the God they have been worshipping was made up of old warrior legendary material in which humans could be heroes and this has been a huge let down. hence the aggression. But if you are asking what do those descriptions of God tell us about ourselves and our relationship to God then we can see that there is huge space for the absence of God to yield something meaningful.

    Take your example of Caesar - In all the depictions he is young and vibrant. If you compare this with old Roman republican depictions of great men you will find that the latter are older men and on display are their warts and all. So which depictions are more real - Caesar's or the roman rebublican's? If I was living at the time I would have been like the majority of people - as indifferent as possible because of trying to get on with living my life, some of the constants being the seasons, the sun, moon and stars and these would have sustained me together with whatever show the great men were putting on for my entertainment and pleasure - legendary heroes and legendary gods would fire my imagination and I would be very glad that the more powerful were on my side - all this a little like how my life is at present

    the absence of God can be about God not being an object of investigation then and could be about colours, feelings, actions and relationships to humans and non humans - things that we don't think about that much but that we dwell in whilst being a little skeptical and very questioning of the powerful despite knowing that we will be alright at the end of the day. This is quite a difficult feat for people who have lived all their lives trying to please a legendary God and be legendary heroes and takes time. I think one has to be pretty heroic and legendary just to live and dwell in one's life.

    please excuse my rambling post - hope it makes some sense

  • berrygerry
    berrygerry

    it just dawned on me.

    Did this just Millennial Dawn on you?

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    LiaRose, I agree with you that the descriptions of God in so-called "holy books" reveal much more about mankind than they reveal about the deity they were supposed to be about.

    Eden

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