KS10 Chapter Five Discussion

yknot

Reiteration that the below is a discussion of Chapter 5 from 'Shepherding the Flock of God' which is published by the WTS of Penn/NY. The WTS is a non-profit that distributes it's publications free of charge worldwide. This particular publication while not for sale (well none of the WTS publications are either technically) is not distributed broadly but is still nonetheless part of their Bible Educational Work, while not required donations are joyful accepted by all JWs for the purpose of this work......

Here are the previous discussion threads:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/KS10-Chapter-One-Discussion

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200527/1/KS10-Chapter-Two-Discussion

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200581/1/KS10-Chapter-Three

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200585/1/KS10-Chapter-Four-Discussion

Okay Chapter 5 (Determining Whether a Judicial Committee Should Be Formed) is 22 pages long...... dare I say it is 'brazen'.....why not? Brazen Conduct along with gobs are more are addressed in this section! I honestly expect the MOST comments on this thread as this chapter has a little something for everybody!

Subheadings:

Offenses Requiring Judicial Decisions

Below are examples in wWch judicial actioR
would likely Rot be warranted:

Evidence Establishing Wrongdoing

Those Who Have Not Associated for Many Years

Wrongdoing That Occurred Years in the Past

Was the Wrongdoer's Baptism Valid?

Which Congregation Should Handle the Matter?

If Wrongdoing Involves Publishers From Different
Cong regations

Unbaptized Publishers Who Engage in Serious
Wrongdoing

______________

Thoughts

fokyc

Many thanks YKnot, for my breakfast reading.

It is very hard to stomach some of this;

I think we might see some change with some elders in the new year

That is IF they can read!

MrMonroe

According to paragraph 9, a judicial committee may be formed to investigate the "offence" of "brazen conduct", which would include the "Willful, continued, unnecessary association with disfellowshipped nonrelatives despite repeated counsel". The book cites three scriptures in support of this: Matthew 18:17b (referring to repeated counsel) 1 Cor 5:11, 13 which is Paul's appeal to quit mixing in company with a brother Christian who is a fornicator, a greedy person, idolator, reviler, drunkard or extortioner, and 2 John 10:11, which appeals to Christians to steer clear of a person who (v.9) "pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ."

In none of those scriptures do I see any scriptural command for a Christian to shun someone who chooses to reject the peculiar teachings of a religious denomination, namely the Watch Tower Society. If a Witness told the judicial committee they still believed in Christ and God but did not believe the whole FDS backstory and was subsequently expelled, doesn't that mean the Watch Tower's decision to (a) expel that person and (b) command others to shun him would be "pushing ahead and not remaining in the teaching of Christ"?

Without a doubt, the WTS commands elders to expel and shun members of the religion on its own set of rules. Its profession that it is all based on scripture is pure bunkum.

alanv

September 1, 1980

TO ALL CIRCUIT AND DISTRICT OVERSEERS

Dear Brothers:

Keep in mind that to be disfellowshiped, an apostate does not have to be a promoter of apostate views. As mentioned in paragraph two, page 17 of the August 1, 1980, Watchtower, "The word 'apostasy' comes from a Greek term that means 'a standing away from,' 'a falling away, defection,' 'rebellion, abandonment. Therefore, if a baptized Christian abandons the teachings of Jehovah, as presented by the faithful and discreet slave, and persists in believing other doctrine despite Scriptural reproof, then he is apostatizing. Extended, kindly efforts should be put forth to readjust his thinking. However, if, after such extended efforts have been put forth to readjust his thinking, he continues to believe the apostate ideas and rejects what he has been provided through the 'slave class, then appropriate judicial action should be taken.

As can be seen in this letter just disagreeing with a WT doctrine can end up with judicial action being taken.

RosePetal

Would this include celebrating birthdays, Christmas, etc. even though not attending a Church of any kind ?

baltar447

Anyone find it interesting that there's no mention of birthday along with holidays? I looked in the old flock book too and it wasn't mentioned either.

AnonJW

Paragraph 4:

Attempted suicide "may be the result of deep despair or major depression! DUH! If not the DF them?

Paragraph 5:

Oral & Anal sex is ok as long as YOU ARE married to each other.

Paragraph 6:

Masterbation is not Porneia

Paragraph 10 "Brazen Conduct"

Romantic relationships outside the religion, to my knowledge up to now this would bring reproof, a marking talk. It seems now that you can get DF'd for it.

Paragraph 14:

Abhorent forms of porno = kids, rape, torture, bondage etc. Straight sex porn is ok?? I seem to remember reading a WT or something that stated that there is no such thing as "soft porn", well there is now. New light? Do you think that this will ease the minds of many who like to watch main stream porn?

Paragraph 20:

Stealing - does this include those who chhose to pioneer and live on benefits rather than get a job?

Paragraph 34:

Not providing, pioneering and living off benefit and not choosing to work?

Paragraph 39:

This is the reason for which I will most likely stand down as an elder. Although by remaining as such I will be in a position to make sure that it is handled in the right way(law of the land) should it occur locally.

leavingwt

You can be disfellowshipped for the following. . .

Chapter 5, page 60, paragraph 10

10. Though this is not an exhaustive list, brazen
conduct may be involved in the following if the
wrongdoer has an insolent, contemptuous attitude
made evident by a practice of these things:
• Willful, continued, unnecessary assocation
with disfellowshipped nonrelatives despite
repeated counsel.-Matt. 18:17b; 1 Cor. 5:11, 13;
2 John 10, 11; w81 9/15 pp. 25-26.

sir82

unnecessary assocation with disfellowshipped nonrelatives

Lovely!

And who decides what "unnecessary" is?

Look for a 5 or 6 page letter from the Society to BOEs defining "necessary" vs. "unnecessary", complete with examples.

I wouldn't have thought the WTS could grow more like Pharasaic Judaism...but it's getting to the point where nothing surprises me any more.

leavingwt

If you buy a lottery ticket or visit the casino, don't make a habit of it.

Chapter 5, page 69, paragraph 30

30. Greed- gambling, extortion: (1 COI. 5:10,
11; 6:10; 1 Tim. 3:8; it-1 pp. 789, 1005-1006; w891/15
p. 22) Christians should avoid gambling in a11 its
various forms, including lotteries. (Isa. 65:11; g02
7/22 pp. 4-8; w89 7/15 p. 30; g82 7/8 pp. 25-27; g81
11/22 p. 27) If a person makes a practice of gambling
and after repeated counsel unrepentantly pursues a
course of greediness, judicial action would be appropriate.-
w80 9/1 pp. 29-30; w67 p. 356.

KS10 Chapter Five Discussion

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