1975 Quote - Fred Franz' talk--1966 quote and Proclaimers book quote

by sd-7 11 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  sd-7

  For your viewing pleasure, compare the two quotes:

  October 15, 1966 Watchtower, page 631:

  "'What about the year 1975? What is it going to mean, dear friends?' asked Brother Franz. 'Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah's witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that.'"

  Jehovah's Witnesses: Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, page 104:

  "Brother Franz then referred to the many questions that had arisen as to whether the material in the new book meant that by 1975 Armageddon would be finished, and Satan would be bound. He stated, in essence: 'It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that.'"

  Notice the difference in presentation of the same speech? The 1966 article, while it includes cautionary statements, also seems to excite people that 1975 is at least quite possible. The latter presentation of the speech shows a calm, cautionary statement without anything that might excite people who are hanging on your every word. But the presentation of it in the Proclaimers book makes it seem like there was no reason at all for anyone to be concerned about 1975. As if it was just another belief--and can there be such a thing amongst Jehovah's Witnesses? We might add that they were still promoting the "generation of 1914" as an absolute certainty at this time anyway, so it becomes meaningless even if the 1975 thing was an 'apostate fantasy'.

  And hey, sure, they didn't actually say 1975 = the end, that I can verify. But if someone in a position of near-infallible trust places considerable emphasis on the end of 6,000 years of human history as the GB did, it's going to at the very least disturb people, if not mislead them altogether about its significance. It's not like an average Joe saying, "Well, 1975 might be important, but it might not."

  In conclusion, this post, from an average ex-JW, might mean something. Then again, it might not. Don't you go telling people JWs are false prophets, because there's NO PROOF WHATSOEVER that they said ANYTHING DEFINITE about millions of people never having to die or this generation not passin' away or whatever. That's all a load o'crap.

  --sd-7
• 

  Farkel

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/186676/1/1975-For-Deniers

  Farkel
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  Ding

  Awake 10/8/1968, p. 14: "How fitting it would be for God, following this pattern, to end man's misery after six thousand years of human rule and follow it with His glorious Kingdom rule for a thousand years!... How can it be determined when 6,000 years of human history will end? According to reliable Bible chronology, Adam and Eve were created in 4026 B.C.E.... This would leave only seven more years from the autumn of 1968 to complete 6,000 years of human history. That seven-year period will evidently finish in the autumn of the year 1975."

  Kingdom Ministry, March 1968, p. 4: "Just think, brothers, there are only about 90 months left before 6,000 years of man's existence on earth is completed. Do you remember what we learned at the assemblies last summer? The majority of people living on earth today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out."

  Kingdom Ministry, June 1969, p. 3: "In view of the short time left, a decision to pursue a career in this system of things is not only unwise but extremely dangerous.... Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end."

  Watchtower, May 1, 1968, p. 271: "... Adam's naming of the animals and his realizing that he needed a counterpart would have occupied only a brief time after his creation. Since it was also Jehovah's purpose for man to multiply and fill the earth, it is logical that he would create Eve soon after Adam, perhaps just a few weeks or months later in the same year, 4026 B.C.E."

  Watchtower, May 1, 1975: "Does this mean that we know exactly when God will destroy this old system and establish a new one? [Fred] Franz showed that we do not, for we do not know how short was the time interval between Adam's creation and the creation of Eve, at which point God's rest day of seven thousand years began. But, he pointed out, `we should not think that this year of 1975 is of no significance to us,' for the Bible proves that Jehovah is `the greatest chronologist' and we have 'the anchor date 1914, marking the end of the Gentile Times.' So, he continued, `we are filled with anticipation for the near future, for our generation.'"

  That was 35 years ago... and counting....
• 

  sd-7

  Farkel--I remember that thread. Good thoughts there.

  Ding--Excellent quotes. That one from the June '69 KM was one of the big eye-openers when I first started my research.

  On my JC was an elder who was around during the 1975 stuff. He said about that, "The apostates left." For some reason, it never occurred to him that this sort of playing with numbers and the completely weak "Bible" reasoning used to support this "suggestion" was an indication of a larger pattern of thinking on the part of the GB. I pointed out that the Society had already experienced similar 'expectations' in 1914 and 1925. With that history, why do it again? Where is the humility? Why not just say we don't know, and leave it at that? Why put this information out there at all? Of course, all I got was blank stares when I asked those questions. Or maybe Proverbs 4:18, which I quickly pointed out was taken out of context.

  Anyway, I just stumbled across that 1966 quote and wanted to share it because it seems significant that the wording is edited for the Proclaimers book to remove any exclamation points and wording that would clearly have excited a convention crowd. They brought the horse to the water and said, you might be able to drink soon. If there's no sense of responsibility for that, well, no wonder things are the way they are with this religion. But then, having read Crisis of Conscience, clearly this was all about boosting the numbers, be they members or financials.

  -sd-7
• 

  jamiebowers

  Something else to consider, dear heart, is that often what the Watchtower has in print doesn't even closely resemble what is said or practiced in the congregations. You weren't alive in 1975 or the few years before it. As I told you today, I was told by my jw cousin in 1973 that Armageddon was coming in 1975. This was during my childhood in PA. Just a year later, Danny was told the same thing by his jw exwife in CA. This same type of story is told over and over again.
• 

  GLTirebiter

  This blog includes a survey of WT statements about 1975, with several pertinent quotes from CoC, where Ray Franz cites his uncle Fred. THE date was supposed to have been Rosh Hashanah: September 5, 1975.
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  VM44

  Three years later. in 1969, Franz's speculation had moved from being a possibility to being a "fact"!

  *** Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15 ***
  If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the 'last days' in 1914, Jesus foretold:'This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers.
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  Aussie Oz

  The real problem is that by far the majority of JWs today were not in ''the truth'' in the 70s...

  so the proclaimers book is aimed at them, revisionist history, explaining a chapter in the societies history that means zip to them anyway.

  But yes, for those in the know, you sure can see how they have basicaly mis-quoted themselves to give a different impression.

  oz
• 

  VM44

  Another quote that the Proclaimers book left out!

  The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah,1971,pg 216.
  
  "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day if Jehovah" will begin against modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom. "

  http://www.sendspace.com/file/9afznp

  Thanks to Black Sheep for re-uploading this book!
• 

  undercover

  ...often what the Watchtower has in print doesn't even closely resemble what is said or practiced in the congregations.

  I can attest to that. The talks and assembly parts were much more pointed than anything written. I remember as a young'un dreading 1975 and the end. Partly for selfish reasons, like growing up in the world I was raised, partly dread because I felt I wasn't good enough to survive. (what a mindfuck to put a kid through. They really are an evil organization)

  There was only a tiny hint of, "we're not promising it'll happen" but just enough that as a kid, I hoped, prayed, that they were indeed wrong and that the end wouldn't come in 1975. I guess there is a god...and he answers prayers. The end didn't come in 1975.