Child's Nightmares and Memories Prove Reincarnation

by ProdigalSon 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    Thanks for all the comments so far. Its late and I have work early in the am but just wanted to point out a couple of scriptures before getting into the Old Testament more tomorrow....

    Genesis 32:30 Hence Jacob called the name of the place Pe·ni´el , because, to quote him, "I have seen God face to face and yet my soul was delivered."

    Isaiah 26:19

    "Your dead ones will live. A corpse of mine—they will rise up. Awake and cry out joyfully, YOU residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of mallows, and the earth itself will let even those impotent in death drop [in birth].

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    "Gilgul" is the Hebrew word for reincarnation, which comes from a verb meaning "turning in a circle."

    The Old Testament prohibits talking to the dead. That in itself is not a direct endorsement of rebirth, but it indicates that the soul can be functioning quite well without a body, otherwise how could one talk with them? These souls must be somewhere after they die. Can they be in heaven or hell without first having judgment day? Or are they in heaven or hell because there is no "final" judgment day when all souls are judged and assigned permanently to either region? According to the Parable of the Prodigal Son, it would appear that there is no Judgment Day. Or, if there is a final judgment day, from what place are they now, before being judged, able to talk with living people?

    These two scriptures assert the life of the soul after the body falls away:

    Let no one be found among you who . . . is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Deuteronomy. 18:10-11, NIV

    Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God. Leviticus 19:31, NIV

    The next scripture asserts the existence of at least this soul prior to being placed in the womb.

    The word of the Lord came to me, saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:4-5, NIV

    In the Apocryphal book of Ecclesiasticus, at 41:8,9 of the KJV 1611 Edition, Solomon tells us in the following passage that if we do evil deeds in this life, we will have to reap the effects in our next incarnation. It is clear in this passage that Solomon believed in reincarnation. Having forsaken the law, these ungodly men will be reborn in another life to inherit their curse.

    Woe be unto you, ungodly men, which have forsaken the law of the most high God: for if you increase it shall be to your destruction. And if you be born, you shall be born to a curse.

    Flavius Josephus, who was born in 37 C.E. and died sometime after 93 C.E., is the most well know Jewish historian. He was a Pharisee, born Joseph ben Matthias. He served as a commander in Galilee in the Jewish revolt against Rome in 66 C.E. In his most famous book, "Antiquities of the Jews", written about 93 C.E., he describes the history of the Jews from the Creation onward with a full account of the Maccabees and the dynasty of Herod. Reincarnation is a prevalent theme throughout all of his works. He speaks of rebirth so matter-of-factly that one must assume it was an accepted way of thinking so common at the time that it didn't even merit any further explanation.

    "The bodies of all men are, indeed, mortal, and are created out of corruptible matter; but the soul is ever immortal, and is a portion of the divinity that inhabits our bodies. . . . Do not you know, that those who depart out of this life according to the laws of nature . . . enjoy eternal fame; that their houses and posterity are sure; that their souls are pure and obedient, and obtain a most holy place in heaven, from whence, in the revolution of ages, they are again sent . . . into bodies; while the souls of those whose hands have acted madly against themselves are received by the darkest place in Hades?" ~The Works of Flavius Josephus, translated by William Wiston

    Reincarnation was taught by three Jewish philosophers appearing just before or at the time of Christ. They were:

    Philo of Alexandria, C. 20 B.C.E.- C. 50 C.E., the greatest Jewish philosopher and theologian of the Greco-Roman period whose writings have survived;

    The Jewish sage Hillel, the great Chaldean teacher who was the leading Pharisee in Jerusalem during the late 1st century B.C.E. and early years of the present era;

    The great Jewish sage Jehoshuah ben Pandira.

    Today these three men are household names in Judaism and are highly respected by all orthodox Jews regardless of sect.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Note that BTS and I are NOT in disgreement, we both just hightlighted different uses for non-coding DNA.

    Right. The non-coding regions do different things.

    I was specifically thinking of methylation and jumping genes.

    BTS

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    There is a "progression" of understanding of the dead in the OT up to the NT and onward.

    The views on the soul and spirit sometimes got "mixed up" and it seems that you, Prodigal son, MAY be mistaking verses regarding the ressurection as to referreing to reincarnation.

    There is really no mention or hint of reincarnation in the OT or NT and passages that MAY "hint" to it are related to the ressurection which is something altogether different.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    In the Apocryphal book of Ecclesiasticus, at 41:8,9 of the KJV 1611 Edition, Solomon tells us in the following passage that if we do evil deeds in this life, we will have to reap the effects in our next incarnation. It is clear in this passage that Solomon believed in reincarnation. Having forsaken the law, these ungodly men will be reborn in another life to inherit their curse.

    First of all, the book of Sirach was written by Jesus ben-Sira. No one has ever believed it was written by Solomon.

    Second, read the passage (Sirach 41:7-13) in context:

    Hebrew text: "The children of sinners are an abominable offspring, and a godless progeny is in the dwellings of the wicked. They will lose whatever they inherit, and their own descendants will live in permanent disgrace. Children will curse their wicked father, for they suffer disgrace through him. Woe to you, ungodly people, you who are forsaken the law of the Most High! When you are fruitful, it is by means of calamity, and when you beget them, it is only for sighing. When you stumble, it is for lasting joy, and when you die, it is for a curse. Whatever comes from nothing returns to nothing, and so it is with the ungodly, from emptiness to emptiness. A man's body amounts to nothing, but a good reputation will never be destroyed. Protect your reputation, for it will last for you longer than thousands of precious treasures. The good things in life last for a number of days, but the goodness of a reputation has days without number".

    Greek text: "Abominable children are children of sinners, and living together in the enclaves of impious persons. The inheritance of the children of sinners will perish, and disgrace will continually be with their seed. Children will curse an impious father, because on his account they will be reproached. Woe to you, impious man, who have forsaken the law of the Most High. And if you are born, you will be born for a curse and if you die, you will be apportioned a curse. Everything that is from the earth will go back to the earth, so impious persons are from a curse to destruction. The grief of human beings is in their bodies, but a no-good reputation of sinners will be blotted out. Have regard for a reputation, for it will endure for you rather than a thousand great treasures of gold. Of a good life there is a number of days, but a good reputation will endure forever".

    Notice that the LXX differs with the Hebrew (the original language Sirach was written in) in the specific verse you quote. The Hebrew doesn't refer to the sinner being born but to his begetting of children. But even in the Greek, there is no reference to reincarnation. The topic throughout the passage is the reputation of the wicked. There is no intimation that the wicked when they are born have already died. The wicked are born for a curse because, as it is stated just a few verses earlier, their children will curse them. There is nothing here about the wicked going into another incarnation and being reborn and THEN being cursed. The cursing is done by their own children once they have died, which pertains precisely to their reputation. And as for the ungodly, they are not described as being reincarnated but as going to the earth (LXX), as going to nothingness (Hebrew).

  • Terry
    Terry

    Here: Why don't you read about what started this whole thing going in the first place. The most famous case ever!

    Bridey Murphy

    In 1952, Virginia Tighe of Pueblo, Colorado, was hypnotized by local businessman Morey Bernstein. Allegedly, Virginia spoke in an Irish brogue and claimed she was Bridey Murphy, a 19th-century woman from Cork, Ireland. Bernstein says he encouraged past life regression and his subject cooperated. He hypnotized Tighe many times. While under hypnosis, she sang Irish songs and told Irish stories, always as Bridey Murphy. She gave a birth date as1798, described her childhood in a Protestant family in the city of Cork, her marriage to Sean Brian Joseph McCarthy, and her burial in Belfast in 1864. Bernstein's book, The Search for Bridey Murphy (1956), became a best-seller. (Tighe is called Ruth Simmons in the book.) Recordings of the hypnotic sessions were made and translated into more than a dozen languages. The recordings sold well. The reincarnation boom in American publishing had begun.

    Newspapers sent reporters to Ireland to investigate. Was there a red-headed Bridey Murphy who lived in Ireland in the nineteenth century? No records were found that matched Tighe's claims for Bridey's birth, upbringing, marriage, or death. (One supporter of the story, Bill Barker, did find a record of a clerk named John M'Carthy working in Belfast between 1858-1862.) One newspaper, however, the Chicago American, found Bridie Murphey Corkell in Wisconsin in the 20th century. She lived in the house across the street from where Virginia Tighe grew up. What Virginia reported while hypnotized were not memories of a previous life but memories from her early childhood. Whatever else the hypnotic state is, it is a state where one's fantasies are energetically displayed. Many people were impressed with the details of Tighe's hypnotic memories, but the details were not evidence of past life regression, reincarnation, or channeling. They were evidence of a vivid imagination, a confused memory, fraud, or a combination of the three.

    It is indicative of the typical lowering of the standards of critical thinking regarding the paranormal or the supernatural that defenders of fantastic confabulations and preposterous stories find easily accessible information to be incontrovertible proof of their veracity. For example, Tighe talks about kissing the Blarney stone and knew that the act requires the assistance of someone who holds you as you lean backwards and face up to kiss the stone. This is common knowledge and photos of this are available in hundreds of sources, yet this fact has been cited as strong evidence that Tighe really kissed the stone in a previous incarnation.* Yet, these same proponents of the strange and occult are not concerned that the kind of reincarnation they are considering contradicts everything we know about human consciousness and the brain, especially about how memory works.

    Memories exist in neural connections in the brain. Brain traumas and diseases like Alzheimer's reveal that when these neural connections are destroyed, memories are destroyed. When the brain decays and dies memories will be destroyed. There is no logical reason for maintaining that there is a parallel entity (spirit or mind) that exists independently of the brain and which maintains memories that will be accessible to us only after we die or after this imagined parallel entity enters another body.

    As Martin Gardner says, "Almost any hypnotic subject capable of going into a deep trance will babble about a previous incarnation if the hypnotist asks him to. He will babble just as freely about his future incarnations....In every case of this sort where there has been adequate checking on the subject's past, it has been found that the subject was weaving together long forgotten bits of information acquired during his early years" (Gardner 1957).

    When you hear hoof beats think first of horses, not centaurs.

  • TheTruthAboutTheTruth
    TheTruthAboutTheTruth

    I seriously think the autism question needs investigation about, not chemicals, but television watching and video games. This sort of research is not going to be popular with corporations.

    Metraton this was a very ignorant statement which is completely untrue.Autism spectrum disorders are identifiable from a very young age,even from 6 months old.Well before a child could play computer games or watch telly.Maybe you should research topics before you state such statements like this.My boy has aspergers and these kind of statements really make my blood boil.It is very likely a genetic disorder.NOTHING to do with television or video games!!

  • metatron
    metatron

    Uh, no, I feel no need to be apologetic to you or anyone about this subject. Let your blood boil.

    I got the same emotional reaction from another parent with an autistic kid and I felt disgusted. Especially as the child seems to be allowed unlimited access to video games and TV watching. Further, there have been some interesting experiments with video presentations that teach these kids to play learning games about the expression of emotions on faces to teach proper interaction.

    Yes, many kids are clearly identifiable as being autistic from birth - but that says nothing about the wide spectrum of this behavior or the possible 'encouragement' these kids may get from the excesses of modern entertainment. The possible effect of TV in particular was brought up as a possibility in university studies along with some reasonable correlations.

    Oh, and by the way ... I score quite high on high function autistic tests but over time I have gradually learned how to at least pretend to be like others while feeling little different from the author of "An Anthropologist On Mars".

    metatron

  • TheTruthAboutTheTruth
    TheTruthAboutTheTruth

    Maybe you shouldn't have been watching telly or playing video games as a child,im sure you would have been fine then,wouldnt have been on the autistic spectrum then.!

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    I have an autistic son who's turning 19 in January. I think this subject is worthy of its own thread, so I'm going to start one when I get a break at work.....

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