Can the Gospels be Dated Early?

by XJW4EVR 19 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    Well, Bart Ehrman is the leading authority on textual criticism, and has written a number of books on the New Testament. The author dealt with him in previous posts. Therefore your unwarranted assertion of "loaded language" does not follow. Now if you wish to demonstrate what statements were appeals to emotion, I might be willing to listen. By the way did you leave your comments on the author's blog?

    Let's deconstruct.... Whoever the author is and whatever previous relationship they have have is irrelevant to the loaded language. It's there regardless of who they are. The "therefore" you use to try to connect the two with "unwarranted assertions" is out of place. The assertions are there because the loaded language is there.

    I never said the statements were appeals to emotion, that is a different poor debate tactic. They can be related, but are not necessarily related.

    Since you asked, the loaded language is "colorful assertions", "we can be confident", "shut the mouths of critics and skeptics", "these ideas are devoured by this sin loving and blinded generation", etc. etc....

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    Yeeesh, I just read the three parts of of his "research" on the blog where he thought he "proved" something. That was almost up to the scholarly and research quality of the new WT brochures on life.

  • XJW4EVR
    XJW4EVR

    Farkel said:

    What does anyone know about this subject?

    So no need to reply to you since your own statement disqualifies all statements preceding and proceeding this one.

  • XJW4EVR
    XJW4EVR

    the scholarly and research quality of the new WT brochures on life.

    Nice use of "loaded language" ;-)

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Has anyone dealt with the simple question of whether Jesus was or was not illiterate?

    There is a very good chance that a common Jewish person would be literate at that time and place.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/197660/2/Why-would-a-1st-Century-nobody-want-to-believe-a-Jesus-story

    BTS

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    Nice use of "loaded language" ;-)

    Thanks. Except that I wasn't trying to pretend to be objective while at the same time using words to subtly and indirectly influence the readers. I'll be clear, whoever the author way, his research and scholarly abilities suck donkey balls :)

  • XJW4EVR
    XJW4EVR

    Except that I wasn't trying to pretend to be objective

    I know. You were just being a prick.

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    I know. You were just being a prick.

    Honestly sounds like that sometimes. As the great Tallahassee once said, nut up or shut up :)

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I have read several different authors on this, but I don't have the books available to me anymore (library books or passed on to others).
    But I can say this- Serious scholars other than theological-scholars automatically reject the Gospels being written before the events they "prophecy."

    I am inclined to believe them for the following reasons:
    The original manuscripts and any copies of manuscripts of the Gospels that can pretty conclusively be determined to have existed before 70 AD DO NOT EXIST.The burden of proof would be upon Christianity to remove the doubts. They don't do that.

  • MarcusScriptus
    MarcusScriptus

    I think this is another case of expecting the gospels to say something—like prophesy about the future—when in fact that is what the Watchtower taught us.

    The gospels were not written to foretell the future or give detailed clues about exactly how eschatological history is to unfold because Jesus taught his followers that this was not something they should concern themselves with as much as being ready for the time whenever it did come. It is due to the Adventists’ obsession with dates that claims like these became part of the Watchtower tradition, but there isn’t that type of prophecy in the gospels.

    Even the destruction of the temple is not necessarily a prophecy in itself. The synoptic gospel accounts were written either alongside or just after the Temple’s destruction in Jerusalem. This was more of a way of saying that Jesus was right, and that’s why the Christians didn’t perish who were living in Jerusalem around the time the Romans surrounded the city. Nothing was written for them before that event, but it was the oral catechesis of Jesus’ sayings that were taught by word of mouth that got the Christians to leave Jerusalem when the Romans appeared to back down.

    The gospels seem to mention the event as having just happened or being a well-established event in history. It is merely part of the narrative of a prophetic speech, but not a “crystal ball” that was merely waiting for JWs to come along and pick it from ‘it’s shelf in the Ministry of Magic.’

    As for other “prophecies” in these texts, Jesus gives very few, most in apocalyptic eschatological terms, and then generally as a lessons in preparation, but far from being given any specifics of the end.

    Even the reading of the Matthew 24 and Luke 21 passages as “prophecy” as done by the Jehovah’s Witnesses is highly suspect. While the Witnesses claim Jesus is saying that the parousia and the end of the world will be accompanied by ‘wars, earthquakes, famines,’ Jesus is actually saying taht these things do not make up a composite sign of prophecy of the end. These are normal historical events. Jesus then tells them not to have any fear therefore because these things “must happen” but that “the end is not yet.”

    So there is little actual prophecy intended to be a timetable or roadmap like the Witnesses teach. We need to unlearn this particular Watchtowerism so that even if we come to the opinion that the Bible is not God’s word, it isn’t based on searching in the Gospels for earmarks like literal histoical forecasts by “prophecy.” That is not something these written accounts are known for having.

    Thus when I hear that same old song, “The Gospels aren’t authentic because their prophecies were written after the fact,” I always wonder, “There’s an actual prophecy in them? Where?”

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit