To serving elders and anyone else who went to the SM this week ...

by wannabefree 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    Yes, I did read your words earlier and meant to thank you for that, it is very meaningful to me, it gave me another perspective and comfort.

    Thanks my brother.

    When I first blurted things out to my wife in March, she promptly arranged a meeting with the elders for me, of course I couldn't and didn't speak my mind, I knew the organization wasn't going to change for me.

    Its nice to share my real thoughts with an elder, so again, thank you.

    Up until my awakening I was reaching out again and was actually expecting to be reappointed on the next c.o. visit, however, once I was awakened, my commenting suddenly stopped (I am selective and participating again), I withdrew from pioneering, had a hard time functioning especially meeting and field service related ... I am past that phase now ... should I walk out? should I work at serving again? should I just be joe average? how would I best help my family? they already know my feelings but my wife especially hopes I have a disease and will get better.

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    Oops, sorry for derailing my own thread ... back to topic

    I would think that they must be experiencing considerable feedback either in the field or JW's themselves about apostasy ... thanks to places like JWN!!!

    I have heard the question in the past, maybe only a couple of times, but drunk on kool-aid, I used the same lame excuses that now make me sick.

  • moshe
    moshe
    b) as an elder I get lattitude. You have to work pretty hard to tag me as an apostate (for now)

    Mike, you have to know that your days as a closet/secret apostate JW are numbered. Better to leave with honor on your terms, I think, than to get the JC boot.

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    moshe, I'm not sure, but you might want to edit that comment

  • bonnzo
    bonnzo

    the reasoning books "reasoning" is, if i understand correctly, strawman logic. it never answers the question, and immediately starts tooting thier own horn about some things they may or may not have right. just because you MAY have gotten some things right while still making predictions that don't come true, means you are falsely prophesying!

  • bonnzo
    bonnzo

    oops! sorry! i posted and i'm not an elder! but i am anyone else, so i guess its alright!

  • MarcusScriptus
    MarcusScriptus

    There’s also the possibility that this is not meant to cover up for mistakes of the past as much as it is designed to make way for the rank and file to be prepared for a major change in doctrine.

    When I left the Organization (as we then called it), the hymn (and I refuse to call it “Kingdom” song…To quote the recent rendition of Horton Hears a Who: “You know, sticking ‘Who’ in front of everything doesn’t make it hurt less!’”), I repeat, the hymn we used to sing a lot was one called: “Then They Will Know.” It was about how we were the “prophet” that would be exonerated once Armageddon broke out:

    Then they will know you only are Jehovah Then they will know you only are our God; Then they will know throughout the whole creation All you have purposed you will surely do!

    I don’t know if that is one of the present Who-Songs, I mean Kingdom Hymns, I mean—bleah (I just vomited a little in my mouth)!

    From what I read now, the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses is nothing like it was when I was a part of it. When I was a part of it we were proud to teach that it was based on dates because that was a sign that we were in the Truth, i.e., being in the only religion that knew the “day” and “hour” because the time had come to reveal them since 1914. To have even considered that we would have been having this discussion in the year 2010 would have been considered blasphemy for there was no way in Hades that this system of things was going to make it past the end of the 20 th century! We were already pushing it with being several years from 1975 as it was.

    I digress a bit, but this is not so much a means to repair the past since the Watchtower merely erases its past by letting books go out of date or resetting the type on a past edition of the Watchtower magazine before putting it in a bound volume (do you guys even have bound volumes every year still?).

    No, I think this religion is finally done with its dates. The entire generation that saw the “predictions of 1914” have come and gone from their Governing Body. Their dead. Yes, dead is the generation that was not to pass away until all they prophesied was to come to pass. They are all very dead. Who’s left in the JW religion who knows how to even do the formulas borrowed from the Adventists of the 1800s?

    While I don’t see them becoming too mainstream, per se, I do see them doing a “Worldwide Church of God” maneuver (major reconstruction of their religious belief system) but in a far more graceful manner. Why deny so adamantly that they never were a “prophet” when I can remember the Watchtower study articles, the weekly Bible study group, and the Society’s book on the prophecies of Ezekiel that we had to study week after week to get it pounded into our heads that we were the composite modern-day antitypical Ezekiel prophet class, at least the anointed were, and thus the great crowd was too by association? It’s not just something to deal with what apostates are challenging in the field. If I taught then what is being taught from the platform today, that no such “prophet” status exists among Jehovah’s Witnesses, then instead of disassociating myself I would have found myself disfellowshipped.

    No, this is likely the foundation for a new way to finally convince their people that they are not now nor never were a religion that attempted to set dates for the end of the world, or something like that they can build on. They can’t be the true religion and at the same time these people who encouraged false hopes in dates. If it is the one true religion, then they can’t be associated with such rubbish because none of those predictions came true.

    As a post script to illustrate this, take 1975 as an example. They basically blamed 1975 on the expectations of others, taking very little responsibility for themselves for the whole debacle. You now hear people say: “1975 was due to some brothers and sisters attaching significance to a date that they themselves—not the official religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses—had done come up with on their own.”

    That’s impossible. How could the rank and file attach significance to a date on their own and be allowed to do it to the extent that entire articles in Watchtower literature, yes, in fact, entire publications regarding this date would highlight 1975? Has anyone besides the Governing Body or those assigned by them ever created their own dates and attached a significance to it to such an extent that when the day came and went there was a major fallout because of it?

    No, the rank and file did not create or attach their own significance to the date. Though the “slave-class” had “warned” people to not say anything specific about 1975, they themselves went against their own warning by publishing articles, materials, and talk outlines that stirred up these expectations.

    Believe me, all of us who were once part of this religion know I’m not making this up. Was there ever a time we were even allowed to think for ourselves to such an extent as to force the Writing Department to reflect this “other unauthorized” significance in such a manner? In fact, don’t people regularly get disfellowshipped for attaching their own interpretation to things that aren’t “Watchtower” approved?

    Are we really meant to believe that from the year 1966 when they released the book Life Everlasting in the Sons of God, which is the publication that first highlighted 1975 in a chart in connection with their own eschatology, that they did nothing to stop such apostasy of independent thinking in its own ranks? Are we to believe that those in authority just sat back and watched as expectations among the brothers and sisters got so out of control, the year 1975 came and went which caused the debacle that people are still talking about today and did nothing to stop it? If we accept the “others attached their own significance to dates” excuse, yes, that’s the conclusion we also have to accept.

    Let’s put the word “Kingdom” in front of it and see if it hurts less.

    I may have allowed myself to accept this explanation for brief time before I left, but I don’t today. The Governing Body itself created the entire 1975 anticipation. They invented the connection between 1975 and the end of the world, they wrote the books, they wrote the magazines, they published them and they distributed them worldwide, and thus they alone were the authors of any expectations anyone had at the time. We hoped in what they taught us to hope for because we were not allowed to hope in ourselves.

  • new light
    new light

    Insightful words, Marcus, and welcome to the board.

    I was not around for the 1975 thing, but your words ring 100% true. There is no way the society would ever tolerate a grassroots date setting. There would have been talks and articles clearly threatening the involved with disfellowshipping. What an enlightening perspective you have shared! I wonder what other gems you will come up with. Great stuff.

  • Bonnie_Clyde
    Bonnie_Clyde

    Amen Marcus! I was at the assembly in 1966 when they released the book with the chart. I attended the WT studies about "Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975" printed in 1968, I heard our CO on more than one occasion state, "The Society was NOT wrong about 1914, and they will NOT be wrong about 1975." I attended the the circuit assembly with a big sign posted outside the high school, "Who Will Conquer the World in the 1970's." Yes, I heard all the chatter, and I remember the confusion. Like you said, they issued warnings about not looking for a date but they kept talking about the date. I don't know why I didn't leave back then, but guess I still believed in the 70- or 80-year generation lie.

  • skeeter1
    skeeter1

    The Internet and Fliipper are taking them down. Have you talked with your family members about the overlapping change?

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