Galaxies, rather than stars!

by Yadirf 24 Replies latest jw friends

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  Yadirf

  I suppose that if I were an avid reader of the various Astronomy magazines available I'd have more of an understanding about this. For quite some time I've wondered how astronomers must calculate that there are so MANY galaxies (although obviously they don't know the precise number). I figure that it apparently has to do with first determining that certain points of light, visible through telescopes, are farther out than our own "Milky Way" galaxy. If it can be determined that such points of light (POL) lie outside this/our galaxy (and I don't know how they do that) then those POL have to be galaxies rather than merely stars (which are simply other suns). Why? Because there are no stars outside our galaxy that can be seen at all. Stars outside our galaxy would be stars inside OTHER galaxies, and of course aren't individually viewable through even the most powerful telescopes. The most powerful telescopes are unable to even detect OTHER PLANETS that unquestionably revolve around all other suns (stars) which are part of our galaxy. Such planets are much, much closer than any star of another galaxy, so it's understandable that although other galaxies themselves can be brought into view the numberless individual suns (stars) that comprise those galaxies cannot be discerned. So the trick, I suppose, is in determining SOMEHOW that certain POL lay OUTSIDE the perimeter of the Milky Way galaxy.

  Any ideas/comments? Anyone know what astronomers base their calculations on? Of course certain galaxies are close enough to be deciphered as being just that -- galaxies -- because of their unique spiral shape, but I don’t think that those comparably few match the huge number which astronomers say they know about.
  ====================
  I know that many here have ceased believing in the Bible altogether, so what I say now is directed mainly at those who still do believe, both here on this forum as well as any lurker. I have some fairly unique ideas about the makeup of God’s universe, as can be viewed here ---> http://4heavens.homestead.com/21.html Those who choose to go there will find 3 images which I designed in order to illustrate my idea, as based upon the Scriptures, of how the cosmos is arranged. Please note that in the upper left corner there is a message that says: “To read the text that explains these images and the basis for them click here.” It seems that message is a little slow loading, so be patient if that’s the case. Insofar as the explanation that you’ll find by clicking there, I apologize that I’ve only uploaded a portion of what I have ready and prepared, but haven’t taken the time to upload the rest as yet. Before long I hope to finish what I started.

  The same goes for a great deal of the other subjects on my site, I just haven’t taken the time to complete it all. For anyone that is still interested in the Bible and believes that it’s true, you might agree with my deduction that the name on the forehead of the Harlot of Revelation 17 is most certainly NOT her own name. Rather than being that of her own name, which is the supposition of all the theologians that I am aware of (including my beloved brothers at the WTS), it’s the name of none other than the upcoming 8th king of Bible prophecy, a World Government. (see ---> http://4heavens.homestead.com/5.html) Again, I apologize for only having completed a portion of THIS subject as well … but I plan to get back to work on my site before much longer in order to at least complete those subjects that I’ve partially uploaded already. The truth is that I've been having too much fun on the Internet to tie myself down to more serious matters ... which is a bit irresponsible on my part.

  Yadirf

  Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
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  Derrick

  Excellent point. I hadn't thought of those points of light as extremely distant clusters of stars or "galaxies"! Wow.

  Derrick

  To see a World in a Grain of Sand
  And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
  Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
  And Eternity in an hour.

  -- William Blake (Auguries of Innocence)
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  cellomould

  Yadirf,

  Check out some info on Andromeda. It is the closest galaxy to the Milky Way and its star clusters are easily visible from Earth.

  http://www.seds.org/messier/m/m031.html

  

  "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
• 

  Yadirf

  Thanks Derrick, and hello. it's great to hear from you. I posted this over on your site too, because I'm interested in the view of those over there also.
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  Hi, Cellomould. Thanks for the image. What a magnificent sight! I think it's rather fascinating to consider that the stars in the foreground of that image are in fact relatively close stars inside the Milky Way galaxy, in comparison to the much more distant Andromeda galaxy that lies out beyond. And yes, it is visible to the naked eye. If I remember correctly one has to use what is called “averted vision” in order to see it without the aid of magnification.

  Yadirf

  Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
• 

  funkyderek

  The main ways of determining astronomical distances are parallax, "red shift" and "standard candles".

  Parallax is "an apparent change in the direction of an object, caused by a change in observational position." The earth's movement around the sun provides a change in position of around 200 million miles. The degree of apparent change of the observed object depends on the distance. This only works for relatively close objects, as at greater distances the apparent change becomes too small to detect.

  Because the universe is expanding, more distant objects are moving away from us at a faster rate. Due to the Doppler effect, the light coming from these objects is shifted towards the red end of the spectrum. The degree of red shift gives a good approximation of the distance.

  "Standard candles" are cosmic phenomena (such as supernovae or Cepheid variable stars) which are known to have particular properties. They can be identified by their electromagnetic spectrum so that their absolute brightness is known. Their relative brightness can then be used to determine their distance in parallel with the other two methods.

  Hope this helps.

  --
  "The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794.
• 

  AIRVIEW1

  Another instrument used to calculate and measure what is going on in deep space is LIGO (laser interferometer gravitational wave observatory) a very high-tech sensitive detector. One has been built here in Louisiana another twin ligo facility in Washington State and a 3rd LIGO type called VIRGO in Pisa, Italy. Soon there will be a triangulational experiment between all 3 facilities in an effort to prove Einstien's theory of relativity using deep space gravity wave info. Recently 3 new theories have been proposed as possibilities to unify quantum theory, cosmology and relativity by dr Lee Smolin a professor ofv physics at the Center for Gravitational Physics and Geometry at Pennsylvania State University. The LIGO project is a callaberation between The National Science Foundation, Caltech and MIT.

  airview
• 

  Amazing

  Photos taken from large telescopes will show many Galaxies. One very crude method to determine the the number of Galaxies is to calculate the number observed in a specific area of space, and multiply this by the total spherical area that can be observed. This method incorrectly assumes that Galaxies are all about the same distance from earth ... but, it gives us a very rough idea. Better methods are used, but the above can be used by amatures.

  Distance of Galaxies and nearby stars are determined by using Trignometry. Two large telecopes on different sides of the earth can focus in on the same spot in space, be it a star or galazy. By compenating for motion, time, and a few other factors, they can coordinate their efforts to use Trigonometry to calculate the approximate distance. The problem is that since the distances are so great, even minimal variations or errors on earth makes a precise claculation difficult.

  You said that stars cannot be seen outside our Galaxy. This is not accurate. If we can see other Galaxies, such as the nearby Andromeda, we can see some stars in that Galaxy. The reason we do not see individual stars outside our Galaxy is that they are not there. Stars only cluster into Galaxies. Well, I would not be surprised if someone found a loose star running around out there in between Galazies, but other than those exceptions, stars are confined to Galaxies.
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  thewiz

  sorry

  cellomould

  but the closet galaxies are the small and large Magellanic Clouds about 100,000 light years away (seen from the southern hemi); whereas, the Andromeda galaxy is about 2.54 million light years away.

  It's been a while so correct me if I am wrong but, measuring the distance of a galaxies used to be based on stars called sephreid variables and also Nova and/or super nova.

  It could be roughly calculated that depending on the strecth of time it took a star to brighten and then dim down again, one could calculate it's distance. If that star was in a galaxy then the

  There is also based readings on (mass) spectoroscopy. If the spectral lines could be indentified (say the balmer series -hydrogen) emitting from a light source (an easy thing to due because spectral lines are more identifiable than fingerprints) and the % of the shift of those lines are determined (another easy thing to do -it's just a matter of where the lines should be and where they actually are) then it would just be a matter of using the Hubble constant to calculate, or in this case, reverse engineer for a lack of a better term, to know their distance.

  Also known would be how fast we or it is moving toward it or away from it.
• 

  David Gladden

  Funkyderek pritty much wraped it up.

  To measure the close galaxies, Cepheid variables are used. To measure the most distant galaxies, the Red Shift is used... the farther away something is, the more its spectrum (as in the rainbow) is shifted toward the red side.

  As an example. When you look at the light of hydrogen through a prism, you get the spectrum of hydrogen. Only hydrogen does not have all the colors of the rainbow in it - it only has a few. The colors show up as little lines in the partial rainbow.

  If you look at the few colors in hydrogen, you will see them at certain distances between the Red and Blue. When you look at the colors in hydrogen when red shifted, they will all be moved over to the red side of the spectrum.

  The more the spectrum is shifted to the red, the farther the galaxy.

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  Regarding how the "Six literal creative days" people explain these great distances... I have come across a few who insist that it is all just an optical illusion created by god.

  They say the same about the dinosaur bones: god "planted" them to create the illusion of an old earth. Others insist that the fossils are only a few thousand years old saying that fossilization only talks a few years.

  I remember a web site where a creation-archeologist showed a picture of a leather cowboy boot with a "fossilized leg" in it. It was interesting, for about two seconds, before I realized that to boot itself was not fossilized. The object in the boot was also not clearly discernable as a leg.
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  aChristian

  Carl Sagan, in his books Cosmos (1980, page 299) and The Demon Haunted World (1995, page 330), estimated the number of stars in our galaxy at "400 billion." Astronomers also say that our galaxy, the Milky Way, is an average size galaxy, and they tell us that there may actually be as many galaxies in our universe as there are stars in our galaxy. (The Left Hand Of Creation: The Origin And Evolution Of The Expanding Universe, John D. Barrow and Joseph Silk, 1983, Page 25)

  If this is true, our universe contains one heck of a lot of stars. What is 400 billion times 400 billion? Anyone have a calculator? With this in mind, we can see why the Bible compares the stars in the sky with the sand on the seashore.