Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses are not disfellowshipped over doctrine. They are disfellowshipped if they say what they believe when it is contrary to WTS doctrine. That's conduct. In other words, keep your beliefs to yourself if you want to escape Armageddon.
They didnt leave because of doctrine-they left BECAUSE OF THEMSELVES!
by Joliette 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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brotherdan
Actually they have redefined apostasy as having a BELIEF that is contrary to the WTS. You don't even have to talk about it anymore. If they find out that you BELIEVE that Jesus is not Michael, it doesn't matter if you talk about it or not, you can still be df'd for apostasy. This is in one of the BOE letters. I'll try to find it. But I'm sure many of you have already read it.
The comment that the DO made about JWs not leaving because of doctrine is something that I've read in the WT myself. They say that the large majority leave because of immorality and not doctrine. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I think it's sad if it's true. That means that the ones that get df'd and are being shunned by others feel like they are going to die at armageddon. They are still captives of the WT even while being "outside".
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garyneal
I love this line of thinking that they have. If you really think about it, it really shows extreme arrogance on their part.
Compare that to what some churches do (I can't speak for all but I am certain a lot of churches do this):
- Why are members leaving? Is it perhaps something that happened to that person? Something we can correct?
Shows humility on the part of the church to admit that you may have wronged someone or that you may need to change something. True, this line of thinking can go too far creating a kind of "seeker friendly" atmosphere to the point to where the church looks like the world. But the witnesses (and some legalistic churches) go to the other extreme: It is not us, it can't be us, it must be them.
My wife says that the reason why I decided not to become a Jehovah's Witness is because I did not like the idea of giving certain things up. She's also said in the past that when I was considering the religion, I saw something about it that I did not like and was frightened off. That second statement is closer to the truth but not in the way she thinks. It's funny how witnesses will try to say that someone did not join or left the religion for every reason in the world besides the real reason.
They are still captives of the WT even while being "outside".
That's my sister-in-law.
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Alwayshere
ELDERS BOOK "Pay attention to the flock" Apostasy includes people who deliberatly spread, stubbornly hold to and speak about teachings contray to Bible "AS TAUGHT BY J.W. are Apostates."
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Brotherdan,
Yes, I'd like the reference material on this change if you can get your hands on it.
Thanks, Vander
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AK - Jeff
My reasons included both of the above - doctrine and myself.
Once I got away, I began to find out that I wasn't such a bad fellow after all. Then I began to understand that doctrine is wrong most of the time by almost every group that has doctrine.
I am part of the human race. I owe my life to that race, and not to god. I should serve mankind, not the Great Absentee One.
But it is not about selfishness for me - which is how they wanted it to be received by the crowd. Far from that. In fact, just the opposite.
Jeff
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miseryloveselders
Wanted to mention another aspect of it. Granted, most do get DFd over behavior. Thats a fact, its mostly due to behavior. However, something I've wondered as of late, is how much of that behavior is a direct result of the toxic culture encouraged within this organization. The toxic culture includes being forced to accept doctrines you may not agree with it. When push comes to shove, some people can hold their own under extreme circumstances. Others may not be as strong, and may seek "certain outlets" to help them persevere through difficult times. What outlets are available to the average JW? More study, more field service, more time with "the friends", more participation at the meetings, etc.. At the same time while your encouraged to spend more time doing all those things that you've probably spent more than enough time at, the things that you'd like to do are becoming ever more a distant fantasy. That fantasy often enough doesn't have to include immoral behavior. It could be things such as participation in a book club, extraciricular sports, classes at the local community college, volunteer work, etc., all of which are frowned upon. So just like private Catholic school girl confronted with an aroused male can't hardly contain herself, so does the so called mature Christian JW when confronted with something in the same vein.
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Mad Sweeney
Not just that, misery, but do you think some JWs commit "sins" because it is a quicker and easier way to get DFd than to face the doctrinal issues? I mean, lots of people "just know something is wrong" with the organization but haven't done the research to put their finger on it. They don't know how to leave or how to explain their desire to leave (maybe not even to themselves), so they sabotage their relationship with the Borg on purpose by going out and having an affair, or they try to self-medicate their frustration with alcohol abuse, or any other number of things that they know can get them DFd (which is what they want, either consciously or subconsciously). Do you find this happens much?
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WTWizard
What about those who leave because the organization and/or those within it welsh on their promises? Try promising me the opposite sex, it might get me in (the first time), but if you welsh, I am as likely to leave in time as anything else. The same thing happens when they promise "Our deliverance is at hand", and then 20 more years pass. Any time you welsh on the promise that gets people into the cancer in the first place, you are taking a big risk of that person ultimately dropping out.
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inbetween
intersting thread.
when I was fully in, I always thought, even unrepentant sinners ( wrong conduct) must have lost their faith, otherwise their course is suicidal. My conclusion (in opposite to the qouted CO) was, and interstingly is even more so now, that most who get dfd, even for behaviour reasons, in fact lost their faith (meaning faith in WTS) before that.
Those who merely succumbed to weakness will seek to get away with reprove.