We are not false prophets

by Cook My Socks UK 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Cook My Socks UK

  Below is the outline for a talk on the Service Meeting this week, I guess to help ones to answer the objection / accusation - how would you refute, if this reasoning was used by a JW at your door?

  Have not Jehovah’s Witnesses made errors in their teachings?
  Jehovah’s Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.—Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6.
  The Scriptures provide time elements related to Christ’s presence, and Jehovah’s Witnesses have studied these with keen interest. (Luke 21:24; Dan. 4:10-17) Jesus also described a many-featured sign that would tie in with the fulfillment of time prophecies to identify the generation that would live to see the end of Satan’s wicked system of things. (Luke 21:7-36) Jehovah’s Witnesses have pointed to evidence in fulfillment of this sign. It is true that the Witnesses have made mistakes in their understanding of what would occur at the end of certain time periods, but they have not made the mistake of losing faith or ceasing to be watchful as to fulfillment of Jehovah’s purposes. They have continued to keep to the fore in their thinking the counsel given by Jesus: “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.”—Matt. 24:42.
  Matters on which corrections of viewpoint have been needed have been relatively minor when compared with the vital Bible truths that they have discerned and publicized. Among these are the following: Jehovah is the only true God. Jesus Christ is not part of a Trinitarian godhead but is the only-begotten Son of God. Redemption from sin is possible only through faith in Christ’s ransom sacrifice. The holy spirit is not a person but is Jehovah’s active force, and its fruitage must be evident in the lives of true worshipers. The human soul is not immortal, as the ancient pagans claimed; it dies, and the hope for future life is in the resurrection. God’s permission of wickedness has been because of the issue of universal sovereignty. God’s Kingdom is the only hope for mankind. Since 1914 we have been living in the last days of the global wicked system of things. Only 144,000 faithful Christians will be kings and priests with Christ in heaven, whereas the rest of obedient mankind will receive eternal life on a paradise earth.
  Another factor to consider regarding the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses is this: Have these truly uplifted people morally? Are those who adhere to these teachings outstanding in their communities because of their honesty? Is their family life beneficially influenced by applying these teachings? Jesus said that his disciples would be readily identified because of having love among themselves. (John 13:35) Is this quality outstanding among Jehovah’s Witnesses? We let the facts speak for themselves.
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  Cook My Socks UK

  Questions re the above:
  God has since long ago used prophets to direct/ guide people, tell of future events, convey his will... etc . So he used a “human channel”.
  Jesus also explained Gods will to his followers directly – this was obviously passed on through generations.

  If JW’s are not that channel today (imperfect though it would be), then who? Is there such a channel? Or has everything that needs explaining already been explained in the scriptures by ancient prophets / earthly channel?
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  Heaven

  Once again, they are reacting to information on the web. Damage Control time.

  Now let me see....

  For over 130 years, the BS/WTS/JWs have been saying that Armageddon is coming soon. But it hasn't. How is this NOT false prophecy?
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  MarcusScriptus

  There’s absolutely no such thing as an uninspired prophet. That’s the meaning of the word “prophet,” anyway, namely someone who speaks for God or a deity due to divine inspiration or direct revelation.

  The JWs always taught us that the Faithful and Discreet Slave class compose the modern-day Ezekiel, a prophet of God. If you say you are the modern-day fulfillment of an inspired prophet of the past, doesn't that mean you should be greater than the inspired prophet Ezekiel?

  The Witnesses also claim to the only conduit by which God instructs people today. If they do not get this information they are teaching about God by means of inspiration, how then do they get it? THey make it up? If it is not revealed to them from above, then the only thing left is that they are not inspired and nothing has ever been revealed to them from heaven, ever.

  It’s the “little bit” or “kinda” pregnant argument. You can’t be a little bit or kinda pregnant. You either PG or you’re not.

  If you speak for God you are a prophet. If you’re a prophet, you’re inspired. All that “inspired” means is to be guided or controlled by divine influence. So either you are a true prophet, guided and controlled by divine influence to teach, or you are a false prophet. But you cannot have an uninspired prophet. That’s like saying you worship a God that’s not divine.

  And if their teachings are not to be taken as directives from God, then they can’t disfellowship members who do not follow their directives. Why not? Because none of their teachings are inspired of God.

  For example (and not to advocate membership into the Roman faith by merely pointing out) that regardless of what one thinks of the Roman Catholic Church, which also claims to be God’s Prophet class for today, at least it doesn’t back down from saying that when it speaks for God then its word is equal to the inspired written word as well. To them Apostolic Oral Tradition is as inspired as the Bible. It has to be or you create the paradox the JWs do when they claim: “We never said we were ‘inspired’ prophets.” You either speak for God or you don’t.

  Everything else in that outline is a red herring:

  “Don’t look at how we said God’s promise of a new world was to come on such and such a date. Look at this nice fish. It’s pretty, isn’t it? Do you know this fish comes in several different colors, one of which is this pretty red? That counts for something, right? The pretty red? Right? Pretty. You’re not thinking about how we just confessed at the beginning of this argument that we made false predictions either, right? Ah-ah, look back at the pretty red fish. Pretty fish….”
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  Aussie Oz

  How would i refute this at my door? Maybe something like this...

  Have not Jehovah’s Witnesses made errors in their teachings?

  Too bloody right... allow me to point out some real doozies for you...

  Jehovah’s Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.—Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6. Lukes account? they were merely wondering... Acts? They asked a question, didn't teach it.

  The Scriptures provide time elements related to Christ’s presence, and Jehovah’s Witnesses have studied these with keen interest. (Luke 21:24; Dan. 4:10-17) So, you are keen!So are a dozen othe pre-millenial faiths...Keen doesn't equal correct then does it?

  Jesus also described a many-featured sign that would tie in with the fulfillment of time prophecies to identify the generation that would live to see the end of Satan’s wicked system of things. (Luke 21:7-36) I'm sorry, but i can't see anything in Luke that indicates the end times.

  Jehovah’s Witnesses have pointed to evidence in fulfillment of this sign.No, you have pointed to evidence you think fits your theory that lukes account was for 2000 years into the future...

  It is true that the Witnesses have made mistakes in their understanding of what would occur at the end of certain time periods, really, why dont we compare notes on this one? Iv'e got all the watchtowers from 1879 inside, lets hit the computer...

  but they have not made the mistake of losing faith or ceasing to be watchful as to fulfillment of Jehovah’s purposes. They have continued to keep to the fore in their thinking the counsel given by Jesus: “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.”—Matt. 24:42. So, you think that keeping faith gets you off the hook for life changing blunders? Too bad that so many of your so called mistakes in veiwpoint have violated Christs warning...

  Matters on which corrections of viewpoint have been needed have been relatively minor when compared with the vital Bible truths that they have discerned and publicized. I'm sorry, but telling people how good they are for selling all thier possesions to pioneer through the end 35 years ago was just a veiwpoint?!

  Among these are the following: Jehovah is the only true God. Jesus Christ is not part of a Trinitarian godhead but is the only-begotten Son of God. Redemption from sin is possible only through faith in Christ’s ransom sacrifice. The holy spirit is not a person but is Jehovah’s active force, and its fruitage must be evident in the lives of true worshipers. The human soul is not immortal, as the ancient pagans claimed; it dies, and the hope for future life is in the resurrection. God’s permission of wickedness has been because of the issue of universal sovereignty. God’s Kingdom is the only hope for mankind. Since 1914 we have been living in the last days of the global wicked system of things. Only 144,000 faithful Christians will be kings and priests with Christ in heaven, whereas the rest of obedient mankind will receive eternal life on a paradise earth. Look, ALL these can be debated for days... besides, other religions also share most of these beliefs in some form...and view the differences as just 'veiwpoints' too..

  Another factor to consider regarding the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses is this: Have these truly uplifted people morally?May i tell you names of some JWs that are living immoral lives?

  Are those who adhere to these teachings outstanding in their communities because of their honesty? Again, how about i tell you names of some big JW tax cheats?

  Is their family life beneficially influenced by applying these teachings? May i again give you names of some really fucked up JW families? Please? They were really happy till you guys came along...

  Jesus said that his disciples would be readily identified because of having love among themselves. (John 13:35) Is this quality outstanding among Jehovah’s Witnesses? Yes, Jebus did say that...unfortunatley for you, i have found more love among athiests than you people.

  We let the facts speak for themselves. Facts? You mean the ones you print?
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  insearchoftruth

  Thanks so very much for posting this, definitely reactionary mode! I have asked a similar question on JWS.
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  coffee_black

  Just posted the following quote on another thread:

  1894 - "We see no reason for changing the figures - nor would we change them if we could. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date of the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." (Watchtower, July 15, 1894, p. 266)

  They spoke in Jehovah's Name. Nothing they ever predicted came true. That makes them a false prophet no matter how they try to spin it.

  Dt 18:20 “But suppose a prophet dares to speak in my name something I have not commanded him to say. Or he speaks in the name of other gods. Then that prophet must be put to death.” Dt 18:21 You will say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message hasn’t been spoken by the Lord ?” 22 Sometimes a prophet will announce something in the name of the Lord . And it won’t take place or come true. Then that’s a message the Lord hasn’t told him to speak. That prophet has dared to speak on his own authority. So don’t be afraid of him or what he says. Coffee
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  Aussie Oz

  sneaky buggers though, The Watchtower Corporation...

  always hide behind the

  'but we did not say ''Jehovah has said...blah blah blah" '

  sneakier than a room full of lawyers.

  (apologies to any lawyers here...)
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  designs

  The Society always got mileage out of comparing themselves against 'Christendom' kind of like comparing John Dillinger to Baby Face Nelson, I suppose one did kill fewer than the other...........
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  VM44

  What about the title of this Watchtower article from 1972, April 1st issue?