Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

by Quillsky 243 Replies latest jw friends

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  cyberjesus

  Agnostics that I have known (self described Agnostics, I mean) in general do not care what others believe so long as they live lawfully and are tolerant of other people's rights and freedoms.

  and then what happens when other peoples beliefs affect your rights? then do you care? We live in a world where THEISTIC beliefs affect your everyday life, there are laws that have roots in religion and we just take it. Why?

  When we just go with the flow and accept everything is already set then we just stopped thinking. we became sheep. I dont have a problem with what other peoples believe until they believe affect my life. then I do have a problem. its not about spreading my "truth" is about stopping "your truth" from messing with my life.

  anyway.. :-)
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  Terry

  Is baldness a belief? Or, is it simply having no hair?

  If you once had hair and lost it--you become automatically bald without embracing a belief per se.

  You may embrace the loss of hair or bemoan it; either way you are still bald.

  You might try to cover up the baldness with a hairpiece which would reflect your embarassment, however. But, you are still actually bald.

  Atheism is a condition like baldness.

  We are all born with this condition.

  Some of us grow hair and later loose it.
• 

  brotherdan

  This may surprise you, cyberjesus, but I totally agree with you. However, it works both ways. The flag salute contains a comment about God. However, science books contian the ideas of atheism and evolution. I don't think there is really a way to create an environment that will not trample on anyones beliefs. Creationists are going to be upset because evolution is taught in school. Atheists are going to be upset because there are references to God in many parts of our daily life (money, flag salute, governement monuments, etc...)

  I think the name of the game is...tolerance. We don't need to make a huge issue out of other peoples beliefs. This only goes so far. I don't have tolerance for hate groups. I don't think preaching hate towards a group of people or race should be a right. However, when a different belief system does not directly trample on our rights, why can't we just live and let live and ignore what we don't agree with?
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  Essan

  We're not born believing God doesn't exist Terry, nor with a compulsion to 'convert' others to abandoning their beliefs in God.

  Therefore, newborn children are not "Atheists".

  It strikes me that making claims that newborns are atheists is a symptom of the atheists zeal to convert the world - now they are conducting forced 'infant baptisms' LOL.
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  JWoods

  We live in a world where THEISTIC beliefs affect your everyday life, there are laws that have roots in religion and we just take it. Why?

  I contend that even if certain laws had a root in early religion, they have been upheld in many religions (not just one) and by non-religious general ethics for human society. For example, the U.S. has laws against murder and theft, but not laws about tithing or when and where to worship.

  A lot of this has to do with simple reasonableness. I would strongly oppose sharia law, because I believe that stoning people to death and oppression of women's rights is immoral and prehistoric in today's society. Yet, I do not care about traditions like the slogans "one nation under god" or "in god we trust" so long as they are historic, benign as to specific religion, and do not create some factual oppression of anyone.
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  Terry

  I think the name of the game is...tolerance. We don't need to make a huge issue out of other peoples beliefs.

  The greatest intellectual crime we can commit is the toleration of irrational thinking in our schools!

  Teaching our children that non-proven belief is on the same pedestal as factual demonstration of fact is a crime against humanity!

  The Nazi filth that over-ran Europe gained a foothold (and damned near a victory) because of the victims pretending Germany had a right to invade various countries on the pretext of "rights".

  Be very careful that your call for TOLERANCE isn't merely a sop to APPEASEMENT. The slope is more slippery than you imagine!

  Appeasement was the policy of European democracies in the 1930s that aimed to avoid war with the dictatorships of Germany and Italy. It has been described as "...the policy of settling international quarrels by admitting and satisfying grievances through rational negotiation and compromise, thereby avoiding the resort to an armed conflict which would be expensive, bloody, and possibly dangerous." It arose from the desire to avoid another war like the First World War.

  The word "appeasement" has been used as a synonym for weakness and even cowardice since the 1930s, and it is still used in that sense today as a justification for firm, often armed, action in international relations.
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  Terry

  We're not born believing God doesn't exist Terry, nor with a compulsion to 'convert' others to abandoning their beliefs in God.

  Therefore, newborn children are not "Atheists".

  It strikes me that making claims that newborns are atheists is a symptom of the atheists zeal to convert the world - now they are conducting forced 'infant baptisms'

  Did you wake up this morning and take an absurd pill perchance???

  Go back and read what I said. Baldness means we are WITHOUT hair. Being born bald is equivalent to being born WITHOUT belief in God.

  Now plug that in to the context of the discussion and re-read your response. I hope it makes you conclude differently!!
• 

  brotherdan

  Terry, you're right. We should be intolerant of everything that we personally believe is irrational.

  Who decides what is rational thinking and what is not? You? I hope not, because so many of your posts seem irrational to me.
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  cyberjesus

  Brotherdan: Yes but Evolution is a fact. Religion is a belief. You cant compare the two of them. When you go to school, in aregular school you are taught what has been discovered. what has been observed and falsified and the conclussions we have arrived so far. But you are not taught that fairies exist or that santa clause might be real or leprachuns or that a big creature in behind the sun hidding and that he created us. Those are beliefs. with no proven facts.

  I will protest if opinions are taught as facts. When I was a JW I was told that evolution was wrong and that automtically blocked my ears. oh how bad was that.

  why cant we just live and let live and ignore? do you want to ignore of the blood policy of the JWs? thats murder. How bout the abuse of woman, or race based on religion? should we just ignore it and let live? Once that we have opened our eyes to the WT it is our responsibility with our fellow human beings to help others or do something to help other survive the cult. What about other cults? what about other religions? what about other kinds of abuse?

  I know that you are still a believer and you very much cherish that. I understand that and I respect that. But when what you cherish so much starts interferring the way laws are being passed then your religious beliefs affect my life. The difference is that my abscence of religious beliefs will never interfere with the way your life goes.
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  Essan

  I think I understood your post perfectly Terry.

  "You said: "Baldness means we are WITHOUT hair. Being born bald is equivalent to being born WITHOUT belief in God."

  Absolutely, but your mistake is when you go on to equate this with 'atheism', thereby claiming all the worlds children for your 'cause'.

  Actually, there is no belief either way in newborns and no position taken in relation to a concept. So these children are perhaps proto-agnostics but certainly not 'atheists'. LOL.