E plurubus unum

by AllTimeJeff 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • AllTimeJeff

    I have been meaning to talk about this for some time. Whatever arguements this causes is up to you.

    Glen Beck, who scheduled his little "return to God" fair with exquisite good taste and timing, said that his rally had nothing to do with politics. I have no problem with him organizing whatever he wants. He has a platform, and people with platforms are going to use them. But please don't tell me its got nothing to do with politics. Whenever you hear that phrase, it means it has EVERYTHING to do with politics.

    The call was, America is a Christian nation, and the many statements of our founding fathers were used, and continue to be used, to demonstrate how much the liberalization of America takes us further away from "us" being a Christian nation. Christian voters need to vote Christians into office, so Christian laws can be made for Christian values befitting a Christian nation. Liberalization needs to be stopped.....

    To which I say, "Duh!" Of course, and if you want to look at history, esp the 20th century, the USA (including all western european democracies) have become more secular, and less religious.

    If the Beck crowd is to be believed, this flies in the face of what our founding fathers wanted for America. Ergo, we need to go back to "the way we were", back to god, become a religious nation once again.

    There is so much attached to this in recent controversies, gay marriage and gay rights, mosques around ground zero, the baseless rumors that our current president is a Muslim who wants to tear apart this country.....

    And here is the thing, I will be the first to tell you that most of the founding fathers were indeed Christian. (Thomas Jefferson was a deist). Most did believe in god, Jesus, and valued the role of their faith in their lives.

    So what does this prove? Try this one on for size. In spite of their very strong beliefs, our founding fathers severely limited what was put into law, regarding religion.

    Think about it. As private citizens, they wrote tons of material about how good religion was.

    But they kept it out of the Consitiution.

    They kept it out of the Bill of Rights.

    Sure, you were free to express your religion. Thus, Glen Beck, you are free to say all you want that god is great, and encourage all who want to to follow....

    You are also just as free to ignore that, and just as free to point out that the exclusion of any language making America a Christian nation in the law was purposeful and by design.

    Are you going to sit there and argue that the founding fathers FORGOT to make it a law that this is a Christian nation? Oops!

    No. Because there was one principle that the founding fathers held higher then Christianity. Freedom

    The experiment was freedom. That a people free would be able to chart their own course individually, free of government intrusion in any respect. The founding fathers simply weren't interested in imposing their personal beliefs on others. They fled that, fled the Church of England, fled a state sponsered religion.

    Please tell me where the evidence is that our founding fathers wanted the government to be Christian. They didn't. They had every opportunity to do so many times, and at the end of it all, said nothing. Because to do otherwise would make America, would make you, less free.

    They wanted to be free, and wanted others to be free to not be religious if that made you more free to be yourself. It was that freedom that trumped any idea about a Christian nation. More important then being Christian, then being religious, was being free.

    The rhetoric of the religious right, is most certainly political.

    You are free to be religious.

    Just don't take other peoples freedom away to not be religious, and to have their own beliefs and rituals, practiced in the privacy of their own homes. If you have freedoms, they aren't because they are Christian rights. They are American rights. To deny the rights "we" have from minorities because they are "Christian" means that being Christian is more important to some then being free. It means e pluribus unum is a joke.

    Freedom is more important then a nation turning back to god.

    I promise you, whatever I do regarding god, I will do in my own home, private, and not at the Beck and call of any movement that says I have to be Christian, because that is "what we are".

    I am free to be "what I am", and don't anyone dare take that away from me.

    E pluribus unum.

  • dinah

    Well said, Jeff.

    How have you been?

  • thetrueone

    Glen Beck is a representative of the Christian WHITE, believe it or not many Americans today think the reason

    the country has gone into slump and hasn't recovered or wont recover is because there is a black man who's

    is not a strong Christian believer heading the country.

    The newly created Tea party is a big part of this political expression.

    You cant have god's chosen country run by a black man who is sympathetic to Islam, who doesn't wave a cross in front of

    himself continuously or carry a bible in his hand.

    White is right as they say ( the ethic color of Jesus ) or god wont bless the country with his loving approval.

    Now why didn't we at least put that that nice WHITE Mormon fellow into office, at least we would known he was true Christain ?

  • leavingwt

    Jeff -- What percentage of voters, in your opinion, disagree with your thoughts, here? Just curious.

  • moshe

    Well "his" Christian religion, Mormonism, almost succeded in creating a Mormon state, apart from the United States. Jimmy Carter showed us how good a job a devout Christian President can do in foreign affairs. He didn't have the stomach for a fight with Iran in order to fee our Embassy hostages- some blood might be shed.

  • cyberjesus

    Bravo! hey welcome back!

  • AllTimeJeff
    Jeff -- What percentage of voters, in your opinion, disagree with your thoughts, here? Just curious.

    Interesting question. Would many people who are tea party members or follow Beck think that the founding fathers meant for this to be a Christian nation? If so, would they care to explain why the founding fathers didn't make it so?

    Percentage wise, I dont' think it is any more then a vocal minority. It is impossible to say. I do know that Obama and the Dems won the last election, and it didn't have a whole helluva lot to do with Christianity. It was the economy then, now, and forever.

    ...which is why I think the whole premise doesn't matter a great deal in the long run.

    Hey Dinah. Doing pretty good. Hope all is well with you! :)

  • leavingwt
    Percentage wise, I dont' think it is any more then a vocal minority.
    ...which is why I think the whole premise doesn't matter a great deal in the long run.

    I agree with those two statements. As best as I can tell, the percentage of voters who think government needs religion is shrinking.

  • dinah

    Let's all "pray" they sink faster.

    I can't understand why they can't see that politicians play on their EMOTIONS.

  • BurnTheShips

    I believe, from the standpoint of governance, that it is a secular nation.

    The founding culture, however, was Christian at the outset.

    We are witnessing culture wars.

    I hold freedom to be the highest value.

    A change of gears:

    Dear ATJ, as you constantly reminded me with incredible verbosity 2 years ago, it was time for the Left to have its turn.

    They blew it.

    To everything, there is a season.

    Some are stillborn premature.

    By the way, today is Locke's birthday, he had an outsized influence on the philosophical underpinnings of the founding of the nation.

    Good night,


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