Jesus: His Disbelief in a "Christian" Organization

by metatron 12 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  metatron

  For many years as a Witness, I could not understand how born-again Christians could reject the notion of an organization in favor of spirit directed individuals. However, a simple look at what Jesus taught shows that he did not predict the sort of "Organization" that the Watchtower claims to be.

  First, the Society accepts that the Parable of the Sheep and Goats refers to events at the End and not before. However, they fail to accept what that really means! The whole point of this parable is that Christ's brothers are strangers (vs. 38, 43) to both the sheep and goats. Their identity and importance is HIDDEN and UNKNOWN THEREBY. You can't build any organization around this parable and be honest about it.

  Secondly, in the Parable of the Wheat and Weeds, the slaves working the "fields" are commanded (Matt. 13: 28) NOT to pull the weeds! The "weeds" are pulled WITHOUT HUMAN INTERVENTION as that is forbidden - instead they are removed by angels (vs.41) . Furthermore, Verse 41 describes Jesus' Kingdom as an utter mess requiring 'garbage collection' ! No "Organization" here, folks. Consistent with the Sheep and Goats parable, the mess is cleaned up in the Great Tribulation.

  metatron (more in next post)
• 

  metatron

  Finally, Jesus words, "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave" ( Luke 12: 42) do not support an "Organization". Jesus words are directed at individuals, not some collective group. How so?

  Well, first, the very idea of giving a stern warning to his followers ( see vs 41) eliminates the notion of an indefinite command to a group. Jesus reply to Peter makes it a personal responsibility.

  Still not convinced? Read Luke 12: 45 - "But if ever THAT SLAVE should say in his heart, 'My Master delays coming......" By saying 'that slave', the matter is directly individual, as 'that slave' could be faithful or not. In addition, the rewards and punishments are received at the End, at Jesus miraculous return - which includes the 'faithful slave' being appointed over the Master's belongings. There's no present "Organization" in this.

  The 'born agains' had the right idea all along. Prior to Jesus return, there are only individuals, not an "Organization".

  metatron
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Jesus: His Disbelief in a "Christian" Organization

  Matthew 16:18-19

  Respectfully,

  BTS
• 

  transhuman68

  Matthew 13:33
• 

  metatron

  Matt. 16 doesn't contradict the rest of the Gospel idea. "His kingdom" (Matt, 13:41) gets filled with junk that has to be removed. What "congregation"? Where? Who? Made up of what individuals? That's the whole, ultimate point in his parables. The identity is unclear to humans

  metatron.
• 

  hybridous

  BTS,

  What about Matt 16: 18 - 19 guarantees that such will be accomplished and visibly laid out according to human observation and satisfaction?

  Respectfully,

  HY
• 

  metatron

  Read all of Matt. 13 , especially vs 41 and 49. The angels collect out the wicked from "his kingdom" and burn them at the End. Vs 49 says the angels will go out and separate the wicked FROM AMONG the righteous.

  metatron
• 

  Essan

  Matt 16: 18, 19. In no way implies an Organization and certainly not in the sense that the WTBTS is an Organization or the Catholic Church is an Organization.

  Neither of these bears even the remotest similarity to the 1st C. Congregation, which by it's record shows exactly what Jesus actually meant by these words. In fact, Peter's 'Organizational' role was minimal, despite his being the focus of these verses. Peter was a preacher and by doing this he brought members into the Body of Christ - thus "building the Church". This verse does not in any way support "Organization". Neither does Matt 13:33.

  "He told them still another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount of flour until it worked all through the dough."

  Plus, the verses about the wheat and the weeds and the foretold apostasy were to show what would happen between the time after the death of the Apostles and the 'End', so this needs to be taken into account.
• 

  metatron

  I'm speaking about what Jesus saw as a final outcome that severely limits the notion of a single Organization representing him. Obviously, as with Matt 16, there wouldn't be much doubt if Jesus or Peter were directly present, back then.

  But at his return, to me, he has the whole thing as a mess, up for grabs, not the neat package that Jehovah's Witnesses theorize. Going to back to what Russell said, he wasn't all that exclusive in his viewpoint, to his credit.

  metatron
• 

  Essan

  You're quite right Metatron. There can be no true 'visible organization' according to those Scriptures. There are just true Christians, among the 'weeds', in the 'field' of the world. They would not be separated until the 'End', which totally undermines the idea of a single visible organization now or since the death of the Apostles.