Married to the mob... er to a JW, want to talk about it?

by Libelle 25 Replies latest social relationships

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  AudeSapere

  ziddina wrote: Anyone else able to help me out, here??? Who else could she talk to???

  Jgnat and Carla.

  Look back at some of their threads for some good info.

  Jgnat in particular had a series of threads for what she called 'UBMs' - UnBelieving Mates. She started with the premise that to call them 'unbelieving' (in WT-speak) is really insulting because she is very much a believing christian.

  Here is a quick link to some of Jgnat's threads:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/member/3324/started/7

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/member/3324/started/8

  and her biography presents a way to contact her off this site:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/member/3324

  -Aude.
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  garyneal

  Libelle

  Garyneal - loving her/him for who s/he is... Good in concept, but hard in practice (which you did illustrate).

  Yes, unforunately the ideal is very different from the real but I am working on it. It's tough sometimes when your own feelings and emotions get in the way. Not to mention the feeling that your spouse is no longer there for you in ways you grown accustomed to this person being there.

  I loved him for who he was, now I just don't really know who he is, in alot of ways. I mean, sometimes I feel like I love him out of habit, more than anything else.

  I can relate. I remember telling my wife on July 4th that it was like the woman that I had is now gone forever and I wanted that woman back.

  IN our best days, I think we can get through this, in our worst (like after a DC or CA when he's all holier than thou and refreshed in his "spiritualness"), I wonder if I shouldn't just find some person to sleep with and so end it decisively.

  I don't know how you practice your beliefs or even if you do anything to practice it but one thing you could ask is how would he feel if you came back from some pagan gathering, refreshed in your spiritualness, and acting in a way that he would not approve of?

  I guess, for me, what seems to work is that I actually support my wife in some ways with her beliefs. I figure she is not the problem, it is the machine that is brainwashing her and controlling her mind. Until she can realize that God is not found in an organized religion, she will always be in bondage. It makes it easier for me to see her for who she really is, a good woman who really wants to know God and please Him somehow. Knowing that this machine is exploiting that trait of hers helps me to be a bit more understanding in her plight. Especially considering that I almost fell in that same snare myself.
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  garyneal

  She believes in the WT with all her heart, but she picks and chooses what she wants to follow. Those are the most dangerous types of JWs IMO. She doesn't care that divorce is only justified in the Bible due to adultry. She has told me that she doesn't care if she gets df'd for it...she will leave me if I stop being a witness and then get reinstated herself.

  This appears to be a form of control, brotherdan. My wife use to employ control tactics on me too. I don't know your full situation but seeing the parallels in my wife, I would guess that she is scared and confused and is only doing this because she does not know what else to do at this point.

  You can begin to see my plight, right? I believe nothing that these people say anymore. But I'm seriously stuck, you know?

  If I am right, you will not be stuck forever. She will eventually get use to this and see that this really isn't as bad as she fears it may be. Then, you will at least be able to begin a fade.
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  garyneal

  bttt
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  Libelle

  If they start witnessing to you, you can in turn anti-witness to them. Are you well versed in their history?

  Sort of, not enough to win one of their twisted, underhanded arguments. And I'm not a great at thinking on my feet when it comes to this stuff.

  Thanks Littlebird, I've not taken the 1918 approach with him... well let me be honest, all of my "approaches" were just angry and upset rants, mostly against the bible itself (it's never held a special place in my beliefs), and produced little effect. I seriously haven't brought up anything because it's still too much of a hot-button for me. I get too upset. FInding some way to converse about it calmly, now that will be a task.

  I don't know how you practice your beliefs or even if you do anything to practice it but one thing you could ask is how would he feel if you came back from some pagan gathering, refreshed in your spiritualness, and acting in a way that he would not approve of?

  Well, I mostly do practice on my own, though I do attend a UU church regularly. As to your question - it would be further evidence, in his eyes, that I'm not following True Religion TM and I'm sure he'd find some way to show me that in some publication or another.

  Until she can realize that God is not found in an organized religion, she will always be in bondage. It makes it easier for me to see her for who she really is, a good woman who really wants to know God and please Him somehow. Knowing that this machine is exploiting that trait of hers helps me to be a bit more understanding in her plight.

  That's a very admirable approach. Wish I could see our situation the same way.

  As I've mentioned before, I tend to get up in arms (though I have been better about it the past year or so) when he starts getting preachy, or if I overhear some of their bible studying or what not. He always uses this in a "satan's trying to mess with him" approach or as a way to "show" me that my beliefs aren't helping me because if I was in a true religion, then I would be more at peace. Now, this just turns the whole issue back around to me, avoiding his role (changing personality, etc that comes with converting to JW) in any of it. Anyone deal with that? It drives me nuts. All of my problems would be gone, as far as he's concerned, if I converted to JW. Really?? I cannot believe he truly believes that, and yet, he does.

  -Libelle
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  garyneal

  Sort of, not enough to win one of their twisted, underhanded arguments.

  Well don't try to win arguments with him, that never works. Just sheepishly ask him questions that plants seeds of dissonance in his mind.

  Is it true witnesses are not allowed to take in blood? Why does the scripture in Acts refer to blood but not fractions of blood? Is it true that blood cannot be stored? How come fractions are allowed then if they come from stored blood? Are witnesses allowed to donate blood so that the fractions may be used to help other witnesses? Why not?

  As to your question - it would be further evidence, in his eyes, that I'm not following True Religion TM and I'm sure he'd find some way to show me that in some publication or another.

  What? Not in the Bible? Publications are referred to first? That's HERESY!!!

  Now, this just turns the whole issue back around to me, avoiding his role (changing personality, etc that comes with converting to JW) in any of it. Anyone deal with that?

  Behold, the CULT mindset at work. This, unfortunately, is far too common.
• 

  Libelle

  She believes in the WT with all her heart, but she picks and chooses what she wants to follow. Those are the most dangerous types of JWs IMO. She doesn't care that divorce is only justified in the Bible due to adultry. She has told me that she doesn't care if she gets df'd for it...she will leave me if I stop being a witness and then get reinstated herself.

  Wow, BD, that's certainly a different scenario. I thought all witness had to drink every last bit of kool-aid to be a good little witness. I don't think I know any pick and choose sorts. I know what you mean about losing the kids. It worries me, esp wrt my stepkids.

  Well don't try to win arguments with him, that never works. Just sheepishly ask him questions that plants seeds of dissonance in his mind.

  Yeah, I have noticed that. Trouble is I get too argumentative/hot headed when the subject comes up. I need to work harder on that.

  Yeah, that cult mindset, gotta love it.

  Does anyone else find themselves sometimes that after hearing it over and over (esp end times junk) that you start getting a little paranoid or worried and a little tweak in the back of your head says "what if he's right?" I find that happens to me, then I say to myself of my usual non-bible arguments and the fact that so many people have thought the world would end in their day... just ignore it, Libelle... I wonder - is that repetitious stuff part of the plan for converting UBMs?
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  ziddina

  "All of my problems would be gone, as far as he's concerned, if I converted to JW. ..."

  Urk!! Sometime back, a couple of Mormon boys came to my house. I told them politely that I wasn't interested, and started to close the garage door (I had been working in the garage with the door open when they showed up...)

  One of the arrogant twits stuck his foot into the garage, activating the safety beam and causing the garage door to open again. I ripped into them; told them all about the bible and its pagan origins, and then started in on ol' Joseph Smith, who was probably a con artist who ended up believing his own con - after all, the expressions "talking through his hat" and "pulling a rabbit out of his hat" were common expressions in the late 1800's, and referred to con artists and shysters...

  Instead of talking to them for around a half-hour, I should have just said, "I would NEVER join a religion that treats women like second-class citizens...."

  I think that would be my response, if hubby pressured me to join the JWs or any other Fundie group...

  Zid
• 

  Married to the Mob

  You called my name so here I am!

  Living with a JW can be hard at times, frustrating at others and sometimes you will want to cry.

  The person you married is still there, but the borg is reprogramming them to become a shell of their former self and repress any emotion or self thought or actions. One of the things you need to find out or tap into is what was missing that made him go back?

  Emotions are however extremely powerful! Use them, use the words I feel sad when he goes off to field service, or I feel happy when he comes out and does something fun with you. Get him to feel empathy for you, if you can do this then you are winning as he will then start to think about yours and others feelings.

  The most important thing is to maintain respect for him and ensure he maintains repsect for you. Yes you might think he belongs to a crazed cult (which he does btw), but if you belittle it at every given moment, then you might push him towards it more.

  If you allow his religion to start controlling what you believe and can and cannot do, everything will fall apart. I let my wife and MIL not allow me to celebrate Christmas and trust me, it was not a good day when your own beliefs are crushed.

  I can't tell you a magic answer, everyone is different but its always good to have an outlet for the anger when they have drunk too much of the kool aid!
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  garyneal

  Does anyone else find themselves sometimes that after hearing it over and over (esp end times junk) that you start getting a little paranoid or worried and a little tweak in the back of your head says "what if he's right?" I find that happens to me, then I say to myself of my usual non-bible arguments and the fact that so many people have thought the world would end in their day... just ignore it, Libelle... I wonder - is that repetitious stuff part of the plan for converting UBMs?

  Repetition for emphasis, I suppose. It's a product of mind control. If you hear something enough you start to believe it yourself. Similar to how abused children think they are worthless because their abusive parents kept saying they are so.

  Last year, I came to a point to where I was thinking "What if they're right?" It freaked me out so much so that I was really thinking that when I die, I would never be resurrected and that I was living a lie, etc.. So I did research comparing what they teach with the Bible. Needless to say, I eventually wound up here.

  If your husband is concerned about paganism, I wonder how he would feel if it was revealed to him that the founder of his religion was into pyramidology and astrology, and that the Watchtower Society used a New Testament translation by Johannes Greber (a spiritist) to lend authority to their New World Translation for years?