WHO wrote the BIBLE? History channel documentary

by Terry 35 Replies latest members politics

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    Terry sez,

    Once you learn who the apologists are with an agenda you get to the purified layer of honest theologians who tell the truth WHILE MAKING tepid excuses.

    Underneath that is the layer of scholars who seem to be neutral and just tell it like it is and let the chips fall.

    Once all that sinks in (like a knife in your back) you go away and think about it and think about it and finally get pretty angry!

    Not if you understood people's strong proclivity to being deceived (you're too much of a purist, and cannot tolerate obfuscation, which is your biggest mistake, new boy :-))

    For me, that is when I went back to the Apologists to see if they were deliberately LYING or not.

    No, they just need it to all be true to survive this dangerous and predatory world. It is a haven of safety to have sky daddies with cojones.

    For the most part, they aren't lying per se. They are covering up and twisting the facts by creating straw man arguments and diversionary tactics.

    It becomes rather glaring once you have some reading under your belt.

    There are about three kinds of apologists I have dealt with, other than the typical orthodox apologists such as the church fathers, whom I at least respect.

    1. Some self-styled apologists (I can think of one on the Trinity issue) who are really sophists rather than true apologists. They invent multiple possible worlds, at least one of which they think it all fits together better than the usual orthodox understandings, which are seemingly illogical. They win by means of a good memory and ability to confuse others using that memory, so people acquiesce because they can't understand this alternate explanation and therefore assume the sophist is smarter than they are, and should be trusted. They are the most respected in the religious community, because they assure the rest that they have the real truth. "History" is suspect.

    They like to hone their skills at creating the "perfect" theology or worldview of life, including heaven and hell and full reconciliation of all good and bad. They start with the assumption that there is an onmipotent being, all loving, all-knowing, all-caring, and so seek to "play down" the known discrepancies in certain biblical accounts that are glaringly obvious to 95% of others who may have never heard an alternate world view.

    Those who become good at this sort of sophistry make the most charismatic of religious leaders - in other words, this produces the greatest return on your buck, and they make many other people happy because they now understand the mysteries of the universe, and realize that they are ultimately safe. They also sell boatloads of books.

    2. The second type I've noticed are SCARED of losing out in life (too many unpredictable predators and potential disasters) and sky daddies make them safe. (very common) These are generally the amateurs that are rife on discussion boards, and get the most negative responses. But they and others need this fix, like a drug. Kind of like Alcoholics Anonymous.

    Once the need to understand all life is abandoned, they are just fine. That happened to me.

    Then by starting over, you no longer have this invisible pre-conceived world that cannot be falsified. You can let the VISIBLE, easily substantiated evidence mount up and then decide, even if you've been mulling it for 30 years. You change your views the more evidence you get, just like the scientists. Occam's Razor.

    3. Another type also like to hone their skills at creating the "perfect" theology or worldview of life.

    They are genuine believers that there is a Great Sky Daddy, and although they will never hear his voice or touch him or see him, certainly because he of necessity must be perfect, we benefit from having a perfect or near-perfect way of explaining it. The more they convince others, the more they convince themselves. If they are criticized, you can tell by their responses if they are really interested in the truth, or rather a better "truth" of their own design.

    Randy

  • Terry
    Terry

    Apparently you can make a good living as "guest speaker" in various churches if you are a professional apologist!

    Stobel and McDowell's annual income would easily pay all the bills for FREEMINDS with enough left over to buy an island covered with pistachio ice cream!! :)

    There use to be a most interesting Anti-apologist named Farrell Till. Till had been a mainstream preacher. When he investigated his own beliefs he did a 180 and became a debator (token lion fodder) at evangelical chruches.

    I wonder if his writings and debates are still available on the Internet?

    (.....goes to Google for a lookup..................................Ah!)

    Farrell Till

    The Uniqueness of the Bible (1997)

    In ETDAV, McDowell begins his defense of the Bible with the claim that it is unique. He parades before us an array of "scholars" to testify to various features of the Bible that qualify it to be considered "different from all others" [books], as if anyone would seriously try to deny that the Bible is unique, i.e., different from all others. At the very beginning of my analysis of this chapter of ETDAV, I will concede that the Bible is undeniably unique. Certainly, there is no other book like it, but this fact, as we will see, becomes more of an embarrassment to the Bible than proof of its divine origin.

  • Quentin
    Quentin

    marked

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    Right now on our local PBS station "Buried Secrets of the Bible" is on, and very interesting!

    Apparently, one of the 10 Commandments doesn't hold water: "You must have No other gods 'before' me," sez YHWH.

    But, there WAS another god 'before' Yahweh. He was from Midian, and was known as YHW, pronounced as Yahu.

    Also Known As:Yahoo-oo-oo Yes, I do think that's funny as hell! And prophetic, too

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    And YHWH was married to Asherah. And He had BIG feet. (left foot prints in stone temples)

  • Balsam
    Balsam

    I love the History Channel presentations on the bible. I've been using this information in my sunday school classes at the Presbyterian Church I attend. We've had some wonderful discussions and even the oldest of the group have been very interested. I wish everyone could see these shows they are well worth watching.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Dogpatch. I need digestives. You deliver a bellyfull.

    You've traveled a long, hard, dusty, road.

    Almost alone.

    For what it is worth, you have my respect, brother.

    BTS

  • Terry
    Terry

    Amen, brother Ships, amen.

  • Terry
    Terry

    What one fact that you (anybody here who reads this) have discovered makes you the most---distrustful--of the standard view of scripture?

    How did you discover it?

    What is the usual refutation for that?

    Did it convince you?

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    Burn, I need digestives, too, because I have colitis, and need probiotics. :-))

    I chuckle sometimes because I think of how easy it would have been for me to be a whiz-bang preacher and sugar-coat everything, smile to all and never have arguments with church members. I think of Marjoe Gortner and Amy Semple McPherson (I was a licensed Foursquare pastor for several years) and Hal Lindsay (Being raised in Orange County, he was all the rage with his "Late, Great Planel Earth" book that shook the Christian world.)

    I read it before becoming a JW (along with all the 7th Day Adventist books by Ellen G. White) and other charismatic speakers whose "job" is to make others feel good because they are RIGHT and being blessed as they speak, especially if they give to the new church-building fund. JW elders often have no idea how much power they could have over the cong. if they only embraced their real, primal personalities (seeking power, fame, weath).

    My mother was a secretary for The Rev. Robert H. Schuller (The Crystal Cathedral) and in the picture in that link you can see me in the car in church... long before the big glass palace was built. The first drive-in church! I watched all the tricks during my youth, and in Orange County it is a zoo for this. That's why they call it the "Orange Curtain" (shades of Wizard of Oz).

    It is not true of most pastors though; they are worn-down fathers wsho love their children and don't like to discourage them by dissolving their faith piece-by-piece, so they push on, telling the hurt and bereaved not what is REALITY, but what works to salve their fears. To these I give kudos, as pastors are the most overworked and underrated of all most times. They, like doctors who treat terminal patients, must tell little white lies all day long, just like mommy and daddy, to keep the household running and to keep the kids from getting scared.

    It is all a very primal thing. Leaders seek power, and the general masses are not interested in the truth, but in just enough of a nice story to make sense of their short lives.

    I wonder if animals do this with their young as well? I would bet ya a dolla they do in the higher species.

    People have no idea how much we can only survive in social circles by telling little white lies. They are the WD-40 of life.

    Randy

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