Would the world be a better place without Atheism/Religious-ism?

by AK - Jeff 98 Replies latest jw friends

  • Consfearacy

    Injustice has often been a result of the way power was distributed, not metaphysical beliefs. In the Soviet Union, the Bolsheviks were arch-atheists who assessed Christianity as an enemy to be destroyed, expressed by Vladimir Lenin and other Soviet leaders: "Our revolution will never succeed until the myth of God is removed from the mind of man."

    Lenin (Chairman of the Council) was succeeded by Alexei Rykov (Joseph Stalin as the party leader). Estimates of how many people died in Stalin's engineered famine of 1933 vary. But they are staggering in their scale -- between 3 and 7 million people.

    The atheist agenda of the Soviet Union didn't necessarily do any good for the nation and its people in itself.

    The reason why Stalin starved the citizens that lived in Ukrain is because they wanted to secede, he viewed this as a political threat, so he just did away with them. The theocratic monarchies in medieval Europe also mainly persecuted people with counter religious or political ideologies because it threatened their empire.

    The communist political system under Stalin was different than the absolute theocratic monarchies in medieval Europe but it was still a totalitarian government. Communist states do not have a separation of powers; instead, they have one national legislative body (such as the Supreme Soviet in the Soviet Union) which is considered the highest organ of state power and which is legally superior to the executive and judicial branches of government. To achieve his goals, Stalin created a new kind of government, a totalitarian state. In a totalitarian state, the government is a single-party dictatorship that controls every aspect of the lives of its citizens.

    I've read a lot of the Christian Greek scriptures. Nowhere does it say that Jesus or any of his apostles killed people or sought to kill people for any reason and the Humanist Manifesto (while somewhat contemporary) doesn't have any chapters or verses that incite violence. When power is in the hands of just a few (dictatorships, monarchies) the abuse of power is generally what follows.

  • cognizant dissident
    cognizant dissident

    I agree Consfearacy

    It is the the desire for totalitarian power that is the true destructive force to society, whether that totalitarian power resides withing a religious framework or a godless one.

  • ZeusRocks
    The atheist agenda of the Soviet Union didn't necessarily do any good for the nation and its people in itself.

    For the last time there is no atheist agenda and never has been. Action is the result of belief not non-belief. Whenever a person or government takes action, it is a result of what they DO BELIEVE, not what they don't believe. Honestly, how hard is this to comprehend?

    The greek scriptures aren't so great. They still advocate owning another human being as a slave. Jesus teachings were neither original nor overly beneficial and some down right stupid. And these are scriptures people use to gloss over what is contained in the old testament.

  • BurnTheShips
    They still advocate owning another human being as a slave.

    No, they do not. I challenge you to find such advocacy in the New Testament.


  • ZeusRocks

    Oh yes they do.

    Ephesians 6:5-9 (New International Version)

    Slaves and Masters

    5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.

    9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

    Colossians 3:22 (New International Version)

    22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.

    1 Timothy 6:1-2 (New International Version)

    1 Timothy 6

    1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters are not to show less respect for them because they are brothers. Instead, they are to serve them even better, because those who benefit from their service are believers, and dear to them. These are the things you are to teach and urge on them.

    1 Peter 2:18-21 (New International Version)

    18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

    Colossians 4:1 (New International Version)

    Colossians 4

    1 Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

    That's just some of them. Never once in the new testament did jesus or any of the apostles say anything against owning another human being.

  • PSacramento
    However, you are incorrect as those are views of evolutionists, not atheists (they are not necessarily one in the same).

    Sorry, I tend to group the two and I really shouldn't since I believe in evolution and I am a "Christian".

  • PSacramento
    It is the the desire for totalitarian power that is the true destructive force to society, whether that totalitarian power resides withing a religious framework or a godless one.

    No truer words could be spoken, well said.

  • PSacramento

    The NT teaches that one must accept their "lot in life" AT TIMES, and the issue of slavery was typical of that.

    Guys like Paul and Peter understood the consequences of rebillion and what that would mean for their followers and the Faith, they told believers to accept their lot, at this time, and understand that things will get better and to look forward to them, to "free their mind" and that the rest would follow.

    Advising people in the 1st century Roman Empire that were slaves, NOT to rebel just because they have a new faith, was VERY PRUDENT and dos NOT consititute advocating slavery.

  • ZeusRocks

    I'm PS but that is a very lame excuse. Jews owned slaves, jewish christians owned slaves and never once was it declared immoral. Jesus could have easily told his followers that they no longer should own slaves as it is immoral. None of the apostles ever said that it wasn't right for a christian to own slaves. Not once. There is no excuse to continue to admonish slavery if you feel it is immoral, especially amongst your followers and neither jesus or any anyone else in the new testament did that.

  • PSacramento


    You make a valid point and even though the Hebrews had a more "humane" way of treating them, they still condoned slavery.

    Jesus didn't come out, point blank, and say anythign about slavery, to be honest, I don't recall the subject ever coming up in the Gospels.

    He did command that we love our neighbours and our enemies lile oursleves, one assumes slaves fall in there too.

    No, none of the apostles said it was wrong to own slaves, though they did say that Master and slave were the same in God's eyes and reminded Christian slave owners that they slaves were their brothers and not just slaves.

    Sure it sound very "on the fence" and it was, no doubt about it.

    They COULD have taken a stand on it but they didn't, probably because they were more concerned about other matters that they may have deemed more important and less "explosive", sure for US in the 21st century that seems silly and wron and we think they perhaps SHOULD have started a rebellion, but...well...we weren't there.

    We do need to remember the times and understand them, slave rebellions were not tolerated in Ancient Rome.

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