Legitimate question maybe a lesbian could answer for me?

WuzLovesDubs

Up front and first off....some of my BESTEST FRIENDS on the planet are lesbian and I love them to death so this has nothing to do with acceptance or not of it. Im all over same sex marriage and respecting ALL human beings' rights to live their lives as they see fit.

I was wondering...and I have wondered this for awhile....why some lesbians, who obviously dont like men, then choose to dress in men's clothes, have men's haircuts, wear men's shoes, flatten their chests, wear no makeup and look and act like men. I guess I don't understand why they would want to take on the persona and appearance of the sex they arent attracted to? And then other women who dont like men are attracted to the women who DO look like men? Can someone explain this?

I was watching a program on Animal Planet at about 4am unable to sleep and it was about a lesbian couple who met in the military and had been together for about 24 years. One of them liked to rescue and hoard animals and it had driven a wedge between them. But I noted that both women had short short haircuts, dressed in bulky mens shirts, bulky jeans and boots and were as unfeminine as they could possibly make themselves. They even kind of looked like each other which happens when people are together a long time.

So is this about combining women and men to get the best of both worlds? A man with a woman's sensitivity and understanding about what women need or something? Im gonna stop conjecturing and let you guys answer.

Reeeallly would like to understand this.

Slayerbard

I know some lesbains who are VERY girlie, and dresses adn all. some who are the "sterotypicial" flannel wearing ones. I know what your saying. But they don't see that as being masculine. anymore than a straight woman wearing a slack suit for her business job feels like a man wearing. It's just a style choice of what they are drawn to. maybe they are wired to think more "man". I honestly have a some straight friends that if I didn't KNOW they weren't gay I would think they are by their dress and decor choices. I see alot of straight women wearing flannel type shirts, I think it is more how they carry themselves that gives the "man" impression than what they are wearing.

SixofNine

..why some lesbians, who obviously dont like men,

huh?

WuzLovesDubs

Isnt that by definition? If you are lesbian you prefer women to men? Maybe "like" was a poor choice of words.

AK - Jeff

Have you asked this to your 'Bestest friends'? Just curious.

My daughter is lesbian, but she is estranged from our family. Some of her lesbian friends dress as you describe.

I always attributed it to gender confusion of some sort. I am likely wrong. Men who are gay often have the same approach - effeminate actions, sometimes cross dressing.

I think the curiosity is interesting - I just wonder if the question could be answered in a different venue. I am sure that many people have asked the same and have probably written books about this.

Jeff

JWoods

I always assumed it was because they wanted to NOT be outwardly attractive to men...same with male gays - the effeminate style makes them (usually) unattractive to women. Some homosexuals, male or female, don't worry about it and dress pretty much normally.

Probably too simplistic, but that was my assumption.

zoiks

A very close family member of mine was born physically female but from a very early age had a lot of gender identity issues. She would ask, "Why didn't god make me a boy?" and wear GI Joe underpants and stuff.

She grew up to be a very masculine person, and now identifies as a male. So now we refer to her as 'he', which is fine. This family member has introduced us to an entire culture of folks who don't conform to traditional socio-political sexual and gender standards. I personally think that human sexuality and sexual identity is not an either/or switch, but more of a dial with lots of gradation. Some people are very masculine, some are very feminine, most are somewhere in between, and this doesn't always align with sexual orientation.

But to answer your question; in my personal experience, many lesbians simply identify with a masculine role in life. They don't necessarily want to change their gender physically, but their comfort zone is dressing, grooming, thinking, and acting "like a guy".

I have also seen that this family member really, really has a way with the ladies. Many, many girls who never had a same-sex relationship find themselves drawn to him.

Leolaia

But I noted that both women had short short haircuts, dressed in bulky mens shirts, bulky jeans and boots and were as unfeminine as they could possibly make themselves.

Not all women feel "feminine" or feel comfortable in clothing that is highly stylized in expressing particular gendered meanings. Clothing, haircuts, etc. are not just devices people use to attract others, but most importantly symbolic resources for expressing the self, one's personality and attitude, and one's beliefs about one's social place in the world. A woman who presents herself in the way you describe may not necessarily intend to lay claim to masculinity per se or want to be perceived as a man, but to lay claim to the symbolic gendered meanings that such clothing and self-presentation imparts: looking tough, looking competent, looking strong, looking utilitarian rather than ornamental, looking working-class, etc. One may reject restrictive gender roles that assume that only men may present themselves this way, or distance themselves from traditional gender roles (which of course are normatively heterosexual) that they find oppressive. I think it's more a matter of feeling comfortable and being who you feel you are, just as a "tomboy" who hates dresses would not feel comfortable in them.

As an aside, how many of us "born-ins" or "raised-ins" hate formal clothing on account of having a rather oppressive experience of having to dress like that to go to rather uncomfortable meetings every week? I know I do.

cameo-d

Wuz, I have known some lesbians that are like the ones you described.

I knew a child whose attacker came in through the bedroom window wielding a knife and threatened to kill her baby brother if she screamed. You don't get over these things. It is always in the back of your mind and it shapes your personality and your future. She was 8 or 9 at the time. After this horrifying experience, she never let her hair grow past her ears. She refused to wear jewelry. She never wore a dress again. I suppose she began to "disguise" her feminity because it made her feel vunerable or made her look weak. She was probably afraid that this nightmare could happen to her again and something clicked in her mind that she did not want to be recognized as being female. Perhaps her masculine gestures were her psychological defense.

I will bet you that most "butch" type women have had a terrifying experience with men in their childhood. This projection is camoflage; it is also an act of bravery that they are taking responsibility for their personal welfare because there was no one to 'rescue' them...no one to 'save' them. You can only depend on yourself. These girls are always very independent. They learn to do "man's work" (i.e. their own plumbing repairs, electrical, etc.) simply because they never want to have to depend on a man for anything. Deep down there is probably a fear and loathing of men in general. And these women probably never had a kind or strong father figure in their youth.

lisaBObeesa

er. I'm not a lesbian but... isn't this how straight people dress?

I guess I don't understand why they would want to take on the persona and appearance of the sex they arent attracted to?

Legitimate question maybe a lesbian could answer for me?

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