need info on...

by notverylikely 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    I think we need more info about what is your personal goal in attending their kangaroo court session.

    Do you simply wish to plant some seeds and walk away knowing you did your best to stand up for real truth? Or do you hope to convince them that the information you have learned is correct, have them accept it, and turn against their Governing Body with you?

    You can do the former but the latter is not going to happen.

    If your goal is neither of those things, what exactly do you hope to accomplish? You WILL be DFd as long as you stick to the truth.

  • notverylikely

    well, thanks everyone, but it's too late for me now. I went ahead and came out about everything. there is no way i am making it through intact as a fader. just remains to be seen if i stay married and with my kids.

  • possible-san
    - Article that the WT wrote saying that if you study the bible on your own you will turn apostate (i seem to recall it, but not sure if it exists)

    *** ZION'S WATCH TOWER, September 15, 1910, p.298 ***
    Furthermore, not only do we find that people cannot see the Divine Plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years --if he then lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the SCRIPTURE STUDIES with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures.

    *** w81 8/15 pp. 28-29 par. 14 Serving Jehovah “Shoulder to Shoulder” ***
    From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah’s people those who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude. They do not want to serve “shoulder to shoulder” with the worldwide brotherhood. (Compare Ephesians 2:19-22.) Rather, they present a “stubborn shoulder” to Jehovah’s words. (Zech. 7:11, 12) Reviling the pattern of the “pure language” that Jehovah has so graciously taught his people over the past century, these haughty ones try to draw the “sheep” away from the one international “flock” that Jesus has gathered in the earth. (John 10:7-10, 16) They try to sow doubts and to separate unsuspecting ones from the bounteous “table” of spiritual food spread at the Kingdom Halls of Jehovah’s Witnesses, where truly there is ‘nothing lacking.’ (Ps. 23:1-6) They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,’ they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom’s clergy were teaching 100 years ago, and some have even returned to celebrating Christendom’s festivals again, such as the Roman Saturnalia of December 25! Jesus and his apostles warned against such lawless ones.—Matt. 24:11-13; Acts 20:28-30; 2 Pet. 2:1, 22.

    *** w81 12/1 p. 27 par. 4 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***
    But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his “faithful and discreet slave,” made up of spirit-anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.—Compare Acts 8:30-40.

    *** w83 1/15 p. 27 pars. 19-20 Armed for the Fight Against Wicked Spirits ***
    As we study the Bible we learn that Jehovah has always guided his servants in an organized way. And just as in the first century there was only one true Christian organization, so today Jehovah is using only one organization. (Ephesians 4:4, 5; Matthew 24:45-47) Yet there are some who point out that the organization has had to make adjustments before, and so they argue: “This shows that we have to make up our own mind on what to believe.” This is independent thinking. Why is it so dangerous?
    20 Such thinking is an evidence of pride. And the Bible says: “Pride is before a crash, and a haughty spirit before stumbling.” (Proverbs 16:18) If we get to thinking that we know better than the organization, we should ask ourselves: “Where did we learn Bible truth in the first place? Would we know the way of the truth if it had not been for guidance from the organization? Really, can we get along without the direction of God’s organization?” No, we cannot!—Compare Acts 15:2, 28, 29; 16:4, 5.


  • jwfacts

    It depends what your intentions for the meeting are.

    1. Do you want to escape being disfellowshipped? Then you need to say you have not been yourself, been depressed and am really sorry and will shut up.
    2. Do you want to prove them wrong and go out guns blazing? - You are not going to change an elders mind on Watchtower doctrine in a one hour session. They have probably heard everything you are going to say anyway and found ways to suppress the questions it raises in their minds

    If you think it is too late and you will be d/f, I would start down the route that JWs are not unique. Russell was not part of an unbroken chain of faithful, he was an apostate Presbyterian that started his own religion after a falling out with a Second Adventist. You could be a Christadelphian or a Seventh Day Adventist or any other number of religions and say and believe almost the same things.

    Then discuss Lifton's 8 mind control techniques. and how the core concepts of being a JW are the same as any other high control religion or cult. See

    The elders will come back with:

    1. We are the only ones that preach - Rubbish -
    2. We are the only ones that go to war - Rubbish -
    3. Where else would you go? - It is not a relevant question, you are just not prepared to be part of a damaging religion.
  • notverylikely

    jwfacts, see my other thread. i probably COULD get out of it if i wanted to, but not sure i want to. depends on how everything turns out.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    I would like to ask what you hope to accomplish by making a defense.

    Do you think they willl change their minds and not disfellowship you? They won't.

    Do you think they will say, "By willikers, You're RIGHT!" and join you? They won't.

    You are not dealing with men who have any sense of REAL justice, but with people whose Watchtower-trained™ minds have been bent and distorted. They FEAR truth. They do not want to hear anything you have to say.

    You would actually have more of an impact on them if you did not show up for your execution and thus forced them to see how impotent they really are. You have better things to do with you time. Isn't there a movie you wanted to see, or someone you wanted to make love to?

    Do as thou will is the law.

  • wobble

    Good luck Notvery !!!!!!

    Let us know what happens.

    Bluesbrothers' point about how they say something like "We prefer the bibles chronology as Truth..." is to be watched for

    Rubbish again, there is no such thing as Bible chronology, there is simply secular history and people like JW's trying to make it fit their crazy "prophecies" and ignoring it when it doesn't.

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