The Greek Word Parousia! How should it be trasnslated?

by wannabe 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • wannabe

    The Greek Word Parousia! How should it be translated?

    Paul tells us at Romans 12:2, to, "Prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God." With that thought in mind, let me continue with this discussion, to see if we can do that, in this case.

    I went into the Gateway Bible last night and performed the very arduous task, of checking out every Bible Translation, where the thirteen occurrences of Parousia is translated Presence in the New World Trasnslation Bible. 19 of the various translations in that program, translate Parousia as COMING. Only Younges translates it as Presence. Two as APPEARS. One as Returns.

    Armed with that information, I went into a Greek source of information. I reasoned that these 19 Bible Translators had no particular ax to grind, so no reason to try to throw others of course by picking and choosing, which application of this Greek word to use in their translation of this Greek word Parousia. I say, that because it can be applied to presence; which the Governing Body who does have an ax to grind, would jump on; and apply it, as they have to the thirteen occurrences, where it appears in their New World Translation Bible.

    As I said, it can be applied to their teaching that the Christ was invisibly present in the year 1914, but according to the information I found, that application is incorrect. The thirteen occurrences where it is found in the New World Translation; and rendered as PRESENCE are incorrect. The rendering should be more properly, COMING! not PRESENCE!

    My belief is, the New World Translation of the Bible is Tailor made to fit the year 1914, like a Suit you'd buy at Tip-Top-Tailors!

    No one could convince me that they didn't know, how the word Parousia should be used as it applied to the return of the Christ. They knew alright, but to render it properly as it should be rendered, would blow their calculations for the year 1914, Hell, West and Crooked. That would have done great damage to them as an Organization. In point of fact, just may have collapsed their World-Wide Organization. They'd put themselves in the position, they had no choice but to render Parousia as PRESENCE. To preserve their self-chosen Status as 'God's Spirit Directed Organization.' Just as a side point here, notice at 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 they have the surviving remnant being taken up during the PRESENCE of Christ. According to them the Christ was Crowned King in 1914 and Ruling as God's Appointed King since that year. Now, was the Governing Body actually to be who they make claim to being, that is; the Anointed Brothers of the Christ; would they still be sitting in their offices at Brooklyn New York; 96 years away from the year 1914? They would by now all be taken up, would they not? How is it they are all still here, running full tilt, fat and fresh, as Daisy's? They tell us, in the New World Translation speaking about the resurrection: "But each one in his own rank Christ the first fruits, aterwards those who belong to the Christ during his PRESENCE." {1 Corinthians 15:20-23} Matthew tells us that, that, is done when the Christ actually COMES. {Matthew 24:29-31} Matthew never said: "During his PRESENCE. Notice too, something that has not occurred as yet, and would have would the Christ to have been invisibly present in 1914; The Lawless one was to be revealed and brought to, as they say, nothing by the manifestation of his PRESENCE. {2 Thessalonians 2:8} 96 years later that still has not occurred. Can only occur when he actually Comes.

    Notice a point drawn out by one of my articles here, concerning this Greek Word Parousia:

    "And still more particularly it is applied to the Coming of Christ in 1 Cor 15:23; 1 Thess 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2 Thess 2:1,8 ; Jas 5:7,8 ; 2 Pet 1:16; 3:4,12 ; 1 Jn 2:28--in all 13 times," ...

    Every one of these scriptures in the New World Translation says PRESENCE where we were told in this article should be applied to the coming of Christ, not the presence.

    Look over now the information I gained from my research:

    DAY OF THE LORD. From the Net Bible:

    "The Second Coming of Christ (a phrase not found in the Bible) is expressed by the apostles in the following special terms: (1) "Parousia" (parousia), a word fairly common in Greek, with the meaning "presence" (2 Cor 10:10; Phil 2:12). More especially it may mean "presence after absence," "arrival" (but not "return," unless this is given by the context), as in 1 Cor 16:17; 2 Cor 7:6,7 ; Phil 1:26. And still more particularly it is applied to the Coming of Christ in 1 Cor 15:23; 1 Thess 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2 Thess 2:1,8 ; Jas 5:7,8 ; 2 Pet 1:16; 3:4,12 ; 1 Jn 2:28--in all 13 times, besides 2 Thess 2:9, where it denotes the coming of Anti-christ. This word for Christ's Second Coming passed into the early Patristic literature (Diognetus, vii.6, e.g.), but its use in this sense is not invariable. For instance the word in Ignatius, Philadelphians, ix.2, means the Incarnation. Or the Incarnation is called the first Parousia, as in Justin, Trypho, xiv. But in modern theology it means invariably the Second Coming. Recent archaeological discoveries have explained why the word received such general Christian use in the special sense. In Hellenistic Greek it was used for the arrival of a ruler at a place, as is evidenced by inscriptions in Egypt, Asia Minor, etc. Indeed, in an Epidaurus inscription of the 3rd century BC (Dittenberger, Sylloge (2), Number 803, 34), "Parousia" is applied to a manifestation of Aesculapius. Consequently, the adoption by the Greek-speaking Christians of a word that already contained full regal and even Divine concepts was perfectly natural. (The evidence is well summarized in Deissmann, Light from the Ancient East3, 372-78, German edition, 281-87.) (2) "Epiphany" epiphaneia), "manifestation," used of the Incarnation in 2 Tim 1:10, but of the Second Coming in 2 Thess 2:8; 1 Tim 6:14; 2 Tim 4:1,8 ; Tit 2:13. The word was used like Parousia in Hellenistic Greek to denote the ceremonial arrival of rulers; compare Deissmann, as above. (3) "Apocalypse" apokalupsis), "revelation," denotes the Second Coming in 1 Cor 1:7; 2 Thess 1:7; 1 Pet 1:7,13 ; 4:13. (4) "Day of the Lord, more or less modified, but referring to Christ in 1 Cor 1:8; 5:5; 2 Cor 1:14; Phil 1:6,10 ; 2:16; 1 Thess 5:2; 2 Thess 2:2. The phrase is used of the Father in the strict Old Testament sense in Acts 2:20; 2 Pet 3:12; Rev 1:6-14 , and probably in 2 Pet 3:10. Besides, as in the Old Testament and the intermediate literature, "day of wrath," "last day," or simply "day" are used very frequently.

    "Search chap/verse Search word: Retrieve verses, illustrations, etc INDEX PREVIOUS NEXT COLLECTIONS ...

    ... "). Coming (3952) (parousia) is a combination of two Greek words para = with, alongside + ousia = ...... in fact state that parousia is derived from pareimi (from para = near, with + eimi = to be) which ...... ,to have come. Parousia then literally means a being beside or a presence. The word denotes ...... presence with. Parousia conveys the thought of • Friday, 16 July 2010, 10:20pm GMT • 242.2k {2 Peter 1:15-18 Commentary

    Let me direct attention now to the Live Forever Book on Page 148 Paragraph 3 where we are told this: "The Greek Word here translated "Coming" is Parousia and it means Presence." That's it! That's all there is! In other words just take our word for everything we teach. Now! They'll focus on what suits their purpose, and ignore telling you the whole truth of the matter. True! It can mean presence, but that Greek word has many flavors, and it is up to the serious Bible Student to dig out the whole Truth, so as not to be misled; and that's what the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses is trying to do.

    So far doing fairly well at it, to the tune of 7 Million going door-to-door carrying forth the lies of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses has been teaching them all.

    No one has to take my word for anything; but do what I did; dig deeply into a study of this Greek Word Parousia and you'll come up with the same surprises I did. Do what the Apostle John directed us all to do: "Test the inspired expression, to see if it originates with God for many false Prophets have gone forth into the world." The Governing Body is merely one of the many. {1 John 4:1} "Do not believe every inspired expression!" Not even mine! Test them out too! All we can do, is prove something to ourselves, we cannot prove anything to anyone else. That is a private personal matter. If we are personally satisfied we have done what Paul instructed us to do; we can do no more than that. I cannot really prove anything to you, you cannot prove anything to me. All we can really do is share what we feel we've proven to ourselves; that is all we're really obligated to do. As far as I'm concerned, I've proven to myself the word Parousia as rendered Presence by the New World Translation, is an incorrect rendering; done for the purpose of misleading their followers; who fail to follow the direction given by Paul and John, To "TEST" and "prove to themselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God;" and a lie would never be acceptable to Jehovah.

    So! Even now! We are not waiting for any invisible presence; we are waiting for the Son of Man to COME into Kingdom Power! Wannabe

    an arrival (advent or coming) of a person to a ...

  • nancy drew
    nancy drew

    It was happy hour so she turned to the bartender and said "I'll have another parousia"

  • JWoods

    How is it pronounced?

    Most witnesses I knew said "Pair - Uh - SEE - Ya"

    The only clergyman I talked to about this subject (who had actually gone to college) said it was supposed to be "Pay ROOS ia"

  • snowbird

    Main Entry: Par·ou·sia Pronunciation: \ ? pär-ü- ' se-?, p?- ' rü-ze-?\ Function: noun Etymology: Greek, literally, presence, from paront-, paron, present participle of pareinai to be present, from para- + einai to be — more at is ----------------------- Syl

  • JWoods

    But yes - the translation looks like another little Freddy Franz fixup to the NWT to fit watchtower doctrine.

  • wobble

    The word obviously ,if you look at its use in all the verses of scripture where it is found, has both meanings with equal strength.

    i.e coming, and being present. yes an arrival is necessary to be there, a presence (for a period of time) is necessary to accomplish things while you are there.

    The word does not allow , in any way that I can see, for Jesus to invisibly come in the heavens, how is that something that affects his followers on earth ? and then sit on his arse for decades.

    Yet another ludicrous WT doctrine, which they try to back up by twisting the meaning of words.

  • wantingtruth


    I am not a scholar, at all

    but that I can understand when I study the Bible...

    wannabe , I am glad to meet you !

    greetings !

  • TD

    Παρουσια is not perfectly translated by any one English word because it connotes "coming," "advent" and "presence."

    Each of these words has features of the others. An "advent" unavoidably produces a subsequent presence, and a "presence" requires a prior advent.

    It therefore comes down to a question of which English aspect of the Greek word the translator wishes to emphasize.

    The evolution of the word speaks for itself. (IMHO) The word evolved from its Classical Greek roots to a more specialized meaning at the time of Christ that was used to denote a 'visitation by a high official.'

    Adolph Deissmann in Light From The Ancient East states:

    "Yet another of the central ideas of the oldest Christian worship receives light from the new texts, viz. parousia `advent, coming,' a word expressive of the most ardent hopes of a St. Paul. We now may say that the best interpretation of the Primitive Christian hope of the Parousia is the old Advent text, `Behold, thy King cometh unto thee.' [Matthew 21:5] From the Ptolemaic period down into the 2nd cent. A.D. we are able to trace the word in the East as a technical expression for the arrival or the visit of the king or the emperor." (p. 368)

    When a Roman Emperor visited a town, the crowds flocked to pay homage to his procession. Roads were repaired. Trumpets were blown. The people wore white robes. Special parousia coins were struck to commemorate the event.

    There is no way this allusion would have been lost on Jesus' disciples.

  • Chalam

    Very nice wannabe :)

    Maybe you could do a study on ruach and let me know where the words "active" and "force" come from?



  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    The context helps with translation. Would Jesus need to provide a sign for his "presence"? If he is present, no sign is needed. However, if he was "coming", a some sign would be helpful to indicate that he would soon be present. If you asked your guests to call you so that you could be ready for them, would you expect them to call when they were on their way? Or would you expect them to call when they were already there and knocking at the door?

    Of course, for JWs, Jesus is completely invisible anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

Share this