Need help fact checking public talk at the DC

by just n from bethel 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • JunkYardDog

    "When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it. But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning?" -- THE WATCHTOWER January 15, 1974. just n from bethel; you have the wrong idea about me, you think I just started reseaching the wts as a hobby? or from a knock on the door ? or i married a jw? your mighty mistaken. I had that jw crap rammed down my throat for over 40 years and I took my lumps along the way till I lost some very close family . just for doing what I was told" test anything you want about the wts they have nothing to hide"... your talking to me like some smart ass elder using straw man arguements, fallicies in argumentation g 5-22-90 pg 12-14 to put it nicely your calling me the same as jw's call x jw's satan or demons just in reverse. You may not believe in the wt no more but you still have a jw's mentality. trying to put words in others mouths. Trust me I have seen it all first hand how jw's destroy families. I learned after years of research the old fashioned way without a computer. I learned losing debate after debate with jw family ,elders, and any shit heads they brought in from bklyn. I learned step by step how to handle most any jw. In the end I lost some family. So be it. even tho the wt got me in the end, I never BOWED to them. Dam right i'm proud of that. After reading some of your story here, I feel your pain, you knowing how the wts screwed you over all these years. Hopefully you can fade, leave, go back or do whatever makes you happy without the wts destroying your family or your mind. Pay attention; I wish you well being whatever course you take. JYD

  • just n from bethel
    just n from bethel

    JYD - thanks for your well wishes and I wish you the same. I guess I'm confused though. 'cause you said you're not a Witness and never had been. But now you say JWs rammed their beliefs down your throat for 40 years??? But yet you weren't a born-in?? Sorry - I guess I'm just too simple of a man to understand how someone that was never a JW, someone who never went in service, someone who never got baptised, someone who never was forced to comment at meetings, someone who was never forced to study the WT and every meeting, someone who was not forced to forego college, someone who was not forced to give up sports and holidays as a kid, someone who was never held capitivity to unrealistic man-made congregational rules - how somebody who never went through any of the typical things JWs (especially born-ins) had forced upon them - could be more pissed off than the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) who did go through those things and have moved on to a normal life away from all things JW.

    I don't know what you mean by having lost family members. Even when I was a JW, I had a huge part of my family that were never JWs. Many were even former JWs that had just left the org. We never considered them "not family" and the only way JWism interfered was with all the religous activities that took so much time. But we didn't treat non-JW family members in a way that would make anyone think we had lost one another. I'm not a rare case either, I saw this pretty much the same with a number of families in the many congregations I attended around the US. Most accepted that not all of their family would be JWs and did the best they could given the burden of bs religious activity they had taken up. But unless someone was DFd, they were never considered lost. So, if you weren't DFd how did you "lose" family members?? I apologize but I just don't get it. Feel free to explain.

    On the other hand I do know many that left the org who were baptized JWs and their baptized JW family did shun them even though they were not JWs. I've also know that many baptized JWs treat non JWs as "worldly" and there is often a tendency to look down on non JWs. Of course, that's the same in the Isalm, Fundie Christianity, Mormons, and Scientology religions as well. It is an attitude, to some degree or another, part of many religious societies. It sounds like, in some way or another, that you have been a victim of that kind of derogatory and patronizing attitude. It has obviously hurt you really bad. I've helped a good friend who was raised a mormon and experienced the same kind of prejudice from her mormon family.

    The thing is, I don't see how someone that wasn't raised a witness nor fell for the conversion nor married a JW, could be angrier than those that were or are in such situations. Furthermore, as hurt as you allowed yourself to be for 40 years, you would think someone like you would know the best way to reply to a JW or anyone that looks down on you, is to live a life of goodness, kindness, and to surprise them with the unexpected. And that is how most former JWs have moved on. JWs expect them to become bitter and dogmatically anti-JW, and when they don't fit that profile, their JW family and friends start to wonder - and often have a more normal conversation that may open their eyes. Also, this allows the former JW not to have to mess with the religion that wasted so much of their life - they really do move on - the absolute best resonse that can be given. I know that was one of the biggest turning points for me. I have some family that left the org in the early 70s. I watched them for years live a humble, generous, kind, educated, fiscally well off and responsible life. They never once, in all the times our family preached to them, they never once preached anti-JW stuff to the JW family members. When I finally discovered the truth about JWs - I remembered them. I then recalled several others who also lead great lives. Never appearing bitter or spewing JW hate. They had all moved on, in very good ways. Had I not known such ones, I might have thought that former JWs just turned into bitter-foaming-at-the-mouth haters.

    You say I have the mentality of a JW still, and I'd like to say that it's all been left behind completely. But that just can't happen 100% when you were born and raised in. I'll be the first to tell you that I still have some personality makeovers needed. That's one of the reason I decided to post on this forum. But the irony here is that your posts exhibit more judgemental attitudes resembling JWs than most JWs I've ever known. You often direct our posts at fading JWs you think are 'weak' and 'not doing enough'. Saying there should be pages and pages of praise for stories of anyone that jumps down a JWs throat. Since you never were a JW - one of the things you missed out on was the 'not doing enough' talks. Yep, at the meetings JWs rarely talk about the King of the North anymore, rather they talk about 'not being weak-minded' and 'preaching WT doctrine with vigor - with all your might' Yep, it's constantly being thrown at you, week after week.

    Imagine a fading JW coming here though, glad to finally just be getting away from all that for the first time, and what do they see - why it's JYD's post to them - criticizing them for being weak - for not doing enough - being just a 'token X-JW'. Wow - what a surprise to leave the meetings and come here and hear the same thing only in the opposite direction. You say you were never a JW, and yet claim that I still have the mentality - but your posts and actions show it's the other way around. Take a look in the mirror buddy. Seriously, what you hate about the JWs - you're slowly becoming.

    As for me, I pretty much just stopped going. My fade turned into a full blown shave. I won't be going back, I'll being going forward. I won't be judging how much others do or don't do anymore. If their method of leaving was different than mine, perhaps slower, perhaps even requiring them to stay an elder, so be it - I'm done judging. I'm not going to come on here like a JW wanna-be and tell them they're doing it wrong. I'm not going to tell them they need to preach an anti-JW message at every chance they get. That they should seek out formal and informal opportunities to Anti-witness. That part of my life is over. That part of my life was defined as a JW - but now, coming here, I realize that there are still a lot of people that like to preach and tell others what to do and judge them if it's not to their liking. You seem to fit that bill. No straw man here, despite your claims. But do as you wish, and while I can't imagine any real former JW wanting to listen to you tell them they're not doing enough like your their new GB, I hope you find joy in looking down on them. I guess, in whatever it is you do, do it well.

  • just n from bethel
    just n from bethel

    Jesus I wrote a long winded post - I definitely deserve a verbal bitch slap for my lengthy post. Sorry about that.

  • VM44

    This was based upon their understanding of Revelation chapter 17:9,10 where it mentions there would be only 7 world powers and the 7 th one, the Anglo American one, was in existence.

    What happens to this prophecy when China becomes the next world power?

  • VM44

    This "brother" appears to be referencing the booklet "Peace -- Can It Last?" as containing a "prophecy" of some sort.


    7) Joseph Rutherford: Judge Rutherford Uncovers Fifth Column, July 1940 page 15: "At a public address in London, which was transmitted throughout the British Empire, and was delivered in 1938, I stated that the Nazis and Fascists were bent upon destroying the British Empire, and that that would be accomplished.".

    11) The 1942 booklet Peace -- Can It Last? says on page 26: "Once again we ask the leading question, "Peace -- Can It Last?" and God's definite answer is, No! Man-made peace under religion's "blessing" will be very short-lived, and political kings and rulers will not long enjoy it. The record says they "receive power as kings one hour with the beast." "One hour," with God, denotes a very brief time; and suddenly those ten horns and the beast will go into perdition, not peacefully, but violently, at the battle of Armageddon."

  • VM44

    "Peace -- Can It Last" can be downloaded from this webpage:

  • blondie

    Remember that the UN was formed January 1, 1942, and publicized in the media, before Knorr's talk. More discussion:

  • james_woods
    Jesus I wrote a long winded post - I definitely deserve a verbal bitch slap for my lengthy post. Sorry about that.

    Bitch slap cancelled by secret code from the joint chiefs. Anyway - Your thread has a fascinating subject. I think I see a pattern here: my theory - The Watchtower Society has a history of picking the wrong side in 20th century global conflicts. Invariably, they have picked whoever was the opponent of the United States. It has proven wrong both times they did this. I think this goes all the way back to their resentment for the U.S. getting the Rutherford 18 put in prison for sedition back during WW1. Could it be that their past hatred of the U.N. / League of Nations is that they perceive it as a U.S. inspired entity? I.E. - a product of Woodrow Wilson first and FDR later, UN being set up in a convention in San Francisco and later having their HQ in New York City? BTW - as far as Rutherford versus Hitler - haven't I once read here that Rutherford was sort of an admirer of Hitler before WW2, and that he was blind-sided when Hitler decided to oppose the witnesses in Germany? Don't know what evidence there is, but I am pretty sure I have seen this presented here in the past.

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