Appears to be another case of "shifting the burden."

by garyneal 54 Replies latest jw friends

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  debator

  The bible does establish Birthdays as a well known celebration that pagans did.

  Jews like Herod that were heavily influenced by Pagan practisies happily celebrated birthdays. (The Jewish calender is a very complicated one and actually has many more days like febuary 29th in our calender so doesn't lend itself to celebrating birthdays easily.

  So did both Jews and christians including Jesus (who became aware that His cousin was murdered as a birthday event for Herod) suddenly turn around and start celebrating birthdays?

  No! neither Jews (unless pagan influenced ones like Herod) or Early Christians although knowing about birthdays celebrated them.

  Why would I as a christian celebrate something that Jesus and the other christians didn't when they easily could have? and thats the point. Birthdays were known but Christians simply didn't do them including Jesus himself.

  Hi Garyneal

  Do you have any strong religious convictions you would like your wife to respect if nothing else? Wouldn't it be better for you both to come to a mutual agreement, maybe have special dinners out as a couple without it needing to be on a particular date like birthdays or Christimas etc that will spoil the evening making it a battlefield? I know if had a wife with different religious convictions I would respect her beliefs and allow for them as part of my love for her while not compromising my own.
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  PSacramento

  And Jesus also said he came to bring a sword, etc...so the believer who experiences contention in their family life feels validated. "OMG this is exactly what Jeebus said would happen! I must be doing the right thing!"

  And when the apostles said "here is a sword", Jesus said, "that's enough", which was a nice way of him saying, "that's not what I mean you assholes".

  :)
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  PSacramento

  A birthday is an anniversary, if one is ok, so is the other, period.

  The bible marked events, events in which somethign happened, so unless soemthing happened during a BDay where Jesus was at, there would be no mention.

  Paul makes it clear to NOT JUDGE anyones view of special days, Jesus celebrated the festival of dedication, every year, it there is only ONE mention of it and it is in John, why? because John choose to include that event.

  Jews celebrate Bdays, I know, I was at one not to long ago, orthodox Jews as a matter of fact, they also celebrate certain Bdays more than others, barmitzvah for example and even Abraham celebrated when Isacc ( I think it was Isac) was weaned.
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  superpunk

  We're not talking about the same Jesus account, PSac.
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  PSacramento

  Whether or not pagans celebrated Bdays is irrelevant, they also had ritual washings before the Jews, celebreated anniversries, had honey moons, wedding bands and actual TEMPLES before the Hebrews did.
• 

  superpunk

  "There is nothing new under the sun"

  Ecclesiastes - the most honest bible book.
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  debator

  Hi psacra

  Paul was talking about specific Jewish celebrations that Jehovah himself had allowed mentioning sabbath this is not the same as taking on pagan practicies which has always been condemned biblically.

  1 Peter 4:3-4 (New International Version)

  3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you.

  Paul makes it clear there is no allowance for taking on or to keep doing pagan ways and that part of being a Christian is giving them up. That includes pagan celebrations now that would include drunkeness etc.
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  PSacramento

  We're not talking about the same Jesus account, PSac.

  Ah, sorry.

  I think that you are referring to Matthew then, AGuest hd an excellent explanation on that, did you rea it?
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  PSacramento

  Here it is, from the "I don't need jesus to be loving" thread:

  "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

  Not so sure I see a lack of love in those words, dear one. If such ones father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters... or even oneself... were, say, staunch followers of Hitler... and his actions against Jews during the German Nazi regime... and one was coming to Christ because could SEE that such conduct was, well, beyond heinous... then it makes absolute sense to ME that one would have to let go of one's "love" for oneself and these others. Deny all.

  But that's not exactly what my Lord meant when he spoke these words, although such would be appropriate. He meant then, as he does today, that one who chooses oneself... or one's loved ones OVER him... cannot be his disciple. A good example of that would have been, for example, one whose family members were staunch believers... and thus followers... of the temple priests and the religious Pharisee/Sadducee and similar sects. Such one had come to KNOW that these were not only false... but oppressing and abusing God's sheep. One would KNOW that they should separate themselves and quit touching such an unclean thing... but could not bring themselves to do that. Because... they would rather have the "love"... and association... of such family... than the love and association of Christ. They choose... family... even when they KNOW that family is WRONG... over Christ.

  What my Lord meant, therefore, is that as one coming, with the hopes of belonging, to Christ... one cannot choose Christ... and not "hate" these. Because their works are NOT his... but those of the Adversary.
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  undercover

  For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you.

  Paul makes it clear there is no allowance for taking on or to keep doing pagan ways and that being a christian is giving them up.

  Yep...birthdays rank right up there with debauchery, lust, drunkeness, orgies, carousing and idolatry...

  All those millions of kids that grow up to live hedontistic lives...all because we gave em a Buzz Lightyear b-day party...