Shelby, the question looming before all of this is, what is the connection between “gods” and spirits? If Jesus was perfected by going from a spirit to a resurrected being of flesh and bone, and if Man was created in the image of God, then why would God look, or appear, as a being who lived on a terrestrial world in an earthly environment? Jesus, who is in the “express image” of the Father, was resurrected a physical being and we’re told that we mortals, because of the Atonement, will also in like manner be resurrected.
Yes, I know the JWs believe that some will resurrect as spirits while some will come forth as physical beings, but this theology simply does not make sense to me. John says that when we see God, we will be “like Him,” for we shall see Him as He is. Witnesses say that since God is a spirit, that this must mean that some will resurrect as spirits. But the scriptures do not say God is a spirit; rather it says God is “spirit.” (They also say that “our God is a consuming fire,” but one must understand the context.) If God were to appear to a man, it would consume him unless, of course, the man were somehow changed, altered or transfigured as were Moses, Abraham and other prophets to whom God appeared anciently. God being “spirit” does not mean that God has to be an ethereal, eternal mist.
One scholar and theologian made the statement that if we could understand what kind of being Jesus was after the resurrection, we would understand what kind of being the Father was. Spirit is simply the “stuff” of heaven. Jesus, though He has a physical, resurrected body, is still spirit in nature, yet He is unimaginable in power and glory. And if children in the world to come are anything like children here, they become like their Father.
I’ve seen the drawings in the publications showing smiling people wearing all sorts of varying garments. One is playing a violin, while another is gathering apples and such. Do you really think that Jesus came simply to return mankind to Edenic status? How long could you be happy in a garden setting? Several days? A week? How about seven billion years??? — and that’s only the smallest iota of what we can imagine as an eternity.
When Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, there was no turning back. We became as God, knowing good and evil, and that changed everything from that moment forth. At that moment, Yahweh became man’s mediator between him and the Father, and Yahweh will remain mediator until He delivers the world, sanctified and redeemed, back to the Father. When Jesus told the Jews, “Before Abraham was, I Am,” he was telling them that He was Jehovah, the God of their Fathers, and the God of the whole Earth. And they understood exactly what He was saying, for they took up stones to kill Him, but He passed from their midst.
There is no angel who will not be born into mortality, nor is there any man who was not a “son of God” before the world was. When the disciples saw the blind man, they said, “Master, who did sin, this man or his parents that he was born blind?” One has to either believe in reincarnation, or one must accept the inevitable conclusion that the man existed and was capable of sinning before he was born. Many people who have near death experiences report feelings of returning home, and while the WBTS says these are hallucinations caused by drugs, I’ve experienced such hallucinations — and what those hallucinations lack is something experienced by many NDEs, and that is amazing continuity. (I took too much medicine one night years ago and my wife said I had seen oranges and pumpkins on TV, and I remember telling her that. But there was no continuity. Everything was a swirl, and everything was changing.)
But you’re correct in much of what you said.
The servant of God, but a slave to none!
The "identity" of the ONLY.....god
by Terry 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Cold Steel
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cyberjesus
Put the milk in the refrigerator- I said to my son.
-"in which refrigerator"?
-The white refrigerator.
-Which white refrigerator?
-We only have one refrigerator, the Roper.
-oh the ice box!
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moshe
Terry, people just don't understand how God works- it's like winning the lottery. God answers a prayer everyday for a winner- It must be so as the winners say, "hallelulah sweet Jesus!"
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AGuest
Shelby, the question looming before all of this is, what is the connection between “gods” and spirits? If Jesus was perfected
by going from a spirit to a resurrected being of flesh and bone...
My Lord was not "perfected" in such a way, dear Cold Steel (the greatest of love and peace to you!). He was perfected in that, although he suffered... and was put to death... he NEVER lost his faith in the Father nor "cursed" Him. Like Job, he PROVED his integrity and loyalty to the Most Holy One of Israel... EVEN WHEN THE "HEDGE" WAS REMOVED. Unlike Job, however, although he "felt" the "hedge" removed, he (1) NEVER accused the Most Holy One of Israel for what was happening to him, and (2) was allowed to be killed. He answered the ACCUSATION made against ALL of mankind... and especially his brothers... by our Adversary, Satan... for himself... and for ALL of mankind. Job 1:10-12; 2:4-6; Job 19:211, 22; Matthew 27:46; Psalm 22:1-31; Hebrews 4:15; 5:7, 8; Revelation 12:10; Proverbs 27:11
Because of this, he was given a name "exalted above every other other name."
and if Man was created in the image of God, then why would God look, or appear, as a being who lived on a terrestrial
world in an earthly environment?
Man was not created in God's image, dear one. ONE man, ADHAM, was created in God's image. The rest of us were created in Adam's image... AFTER he sinned. My Lord's flesh came from Mary... Adham's daughter. Genesis 1:26; 3:21; 5:3; 1 Corinthians 15:49
Jesus, who is in the “express image” of the Father, was resurrected a physical being and we’re told that we mortals,
because of the Atonement, will also in like manner be resurrected.
My Lord was resurrected to the kind of "body" that Adham lost, dear one: a body of flesh... with GOD's spirit... holy spirit... as its blood. Adham started off with such a body and as a result could go in and out between the physical realm (the "earth" outside the garden) and the spirit realm (inside the garden). Such a body, although of "flesh and bone"... can transfigure... by means of its BLOOD... holy spirit... and thus, "go in and out" between the physical and spirit realms... because it can put ON and OFF the "outer garment". After he sinned, however, Adham was given a long garment of skin... flesh with IT'S blood... which skin ultimately BOUND him. Had he been able to get back IN the garden and eat from the Tree of Life, the effects of this long garment would have been nullified; however, he was prevented by the cherubs placed at the entry. (BTW - did you know that in the Chinese culture... the two creatures guarding the entry to "paradise" are... "dragons"... and that dragons... are actually "seraphs" (i.e., flying... fiery... serpents)? Luke 24:36-43; John 10:9; 20:19, 26; Genesis 18:2-8, 16-22; Hebrews 13:2; Matthew 17:2; John 3:5-8; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54
Yes, I know the JWs believe that some will resurrect as spirits while some will come forth as physical beings, but this
theology simply does not make sense to me. John says that when we see God, we will be "like Him," for we shall see
Him as He is. Witnesses say that since God is a spirit, that this must mean that some will resurrect as spirits.
Some will be directly resurrected to spirit beings, dear Cold... while others will be resurrected to flesh, to be given either spirit bodies (i.e., "resurrected to life")... or to be judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire (i.e., "resurrected to judgment"). Others will not be resurrected at all, for they will not die at all... but be changed from the body of flesh with its blood (inherited from Adham) to the body of flesh with God's blood, the "white robe" or spirit body. Ultimately, all who remain will be spirit beings. As a result, such ones will be like God and Christ (who are not the same). John 11:25, 26; 1 Corinthians 15:50-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; Luke 20:35; Psalm 104:4; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 3:18
But the scriptures do not say God is a spirit; rather it says God is “spirit.”
In reviewing the Greek I can see where you would think this. But the truth is that He is both spirit... and "a spirit [being]." Hebrews 11:27
(They also say that “our God is a consuming fire,” but one must understand the context.) If God were to appear to a man,
it would consume him unless, of course, the man were somehow changed, altered, or transfigured as were Moses, Abraham,
and other prophets to whom God appeared anciently.
Exactly! Why? Because like ALL spirit beings, the Most Holy One of Israel is a "seraph"... which is a "fiery flying serpent." They are ALL "fiery". He... being the GREATEST of the species, however... literally breathes fire. And so, in order for some to see Him and NOT be "devoured" by such fire... they had to be changed. Transfigured. From flesh with its blood... to flesh with GOD's blood, holy spirit. Thus, such men were IN... SPIRED ("in spirit"). He can only "tone down" His fire... His GLORY... so much, however, and so Moses emitted that "glory" when he came down from Mt. Sinai. Psalm 18:8; 97:3; 104:4; Daniel 7:10; Exodus 3:2-4; Acts 7:30-35; Revelation 1:14; 2:18; 10:1; 19:12; Ezekiel 1:13; 8:2; Daniel 10:6
God being “spirit” does not mean that God has to be an ethereal, eternal mist.
I absolutely agreed! Indeed, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... is NOT ethereal, or some kind of mist! He is a genuine being... of spirit... which is NOT mere mist. It is flesh; however, celestial in "nature," not terrestrial. SPIRITUAL... in that it is from the spirit realm... and not PHYSICAL (and thus from the physical realm).
One scholar and theologian made the statement that if we could understand what kind of being Jesus was after the
resurrection, we would understand what kind of being the Father was.
We do not have to consider him after the resurrection, for the Prophets saw him before such time. Daniel 7:13; 10:5-7, 16, 17; John 17:5; Philippians 2:7
Spirit is simply the “stuff” of heaven.
Not quite, dear one. There is spirit (the "stuff" of the spirit realm - "heaven")... holy spirit (God's life's force, breathe, blood, and semen)... the Holy Spirit (the glorified Christ)... and spirits (immortal spirit beings, living beings, who reside in "vessels" - bodies - that are, for the most part, "free"... by means of being incorruptible... such that they do not have sin and death IN them. Thus, they are not "bound" by the limitations and confinements of the physical realm. God is a spirit in a spirit "vessel" (body). Christ was a spirit FIRST... in a spirit vessel (the white robe)... became a physical man (i.e., a spirit residing in a physical vessel/body)... and became a spirit residing in spirit vessel (white robe) AGAIN. He received once again received the GLORY (fiery body that is immortal)... that he HAD... before he resided in a physical vessel.
WE... are all spirit beings... residing in PHYSICAL vessels... flesh, with its blood (vs. God's blood). As a result, we are BOUND by that "long garment of skin"... the "befouled robe." This vessel has sin and death IN it. Adham "sold" us into such vessels, which BIND us... so that we cannot "go in and out" between the physical and spirit realms. Christ took HIS vessel to the grave... for US... so that by means of HIS death... WE... could be RELEASED from our vessels... and put on the WHITE "robe"... the clean spirit body. And thus go in and out of the spirit realm. Our SPIRITS... will "reside" in such vessels.
GOD'S spirit will ALSO reside in such vessels because HE... will reside... in US. We are to be the "house" in which there are MANY "abodes" (places for God's spirit to dwell).
Jesus, though He has a physical, resurrected body, is still spirit in nature, yet He is unimaginable in power and glory.
And if children in th world to come are anything like children here, they become like their Father.
We become "like" Christ, dear one... who is the image of the Father and the exact representation of His being. We do not put on God... we put on Christ. In doing so, we become the "temple" in which God's spirit resides... the "Holy City"... in which righteousness (GOD)... is to dwell.
I’ve seen the drawings in the publications showing smiling people wearing all sorts of varying garments. One is playing a violin,
while another is gathering apples and such. Do you really think that Jesus came simply to return mankind to Edenic status?
I absolutely do NOT! These are things "of the earth"... the phyiscal realm. Our minds... and hearts, however, are NOT supposed to be "on the things on the earth," but on our "treasures" in heaven.
How long could you be happy in a garden setting? Several days? A week? How about seven billion years???
— and that’s only the smallest iota of what we can imagine as an eternity.
If that "garden" was the spirit garden that the Most Holy One of Israel "planted in Eden," which was, at that time, to be spread over the entire earth, but in the future, throughout the universe, I could certainly be happy for an eternity.
When Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, there was no turning back. We became as God, knowing good and evil,
and that changed everything from that moment forth.
Okay, from here we might have to agree to part ways in our understanding. First, we did not become "as God." Adham became "like" God in that where he formerly only knew good (i.e., life)... he would now also KNOW bad (i.e., death). Problem was, HE thought he could know bad... i.e., have an intimate knowledge of death... and yet, lived. Like God knew both good AND bad... and yet, lives. But Death held Adham... and his progeny, us. Death did NOT hold Christ, however... and it is through him, by means of HIS sacrifice... that Death doesn't have to hold us, either.
At that moment, Yahweh became man’s mediator between him and the Father, and Yahweh will remain mediator until He
delivers the world, sanctified and redeemed, back to the Father.
Dear one, JaHVeH... IS the Father. It is the SON of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH... of Armies (Veh)... my Lord, JAHeSHUA (JAH Saves; Salvation of JAH... the "one who comes in the NAME of JAH)... who is our mediator (well, he's mine!), who sanctifies us (and has sanctified me, which is why I REJOICE over him and come here to tell anyone who will hear about him!)... and repurchased me... bought me back FROM Death... and by means of his blood, reconciled (redeemed) me to the Father.
It is TRUE that my Lord delivers the world back to the Father, but only so that the Most Holy One of Israel can judge the world (my Lord does not judge anyone). However, once that judgment is completed, the Father gives the kingdom BACK to the Son, he who inherits... and rules as king over it... FOREVER. Revelation 20:11-15; 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Daniel 7:9, 10, 13, 14
When Jesus told the Jews, “Before Abraham was, I Am,”
Ah, dear one... this isn't quite what my Lord said, at least, not how you are presenting it. When he reads it to me (which he usually does), his words are "I am before Abraham became." That is exactly how he has said it to me. Meaning, that he existed before Abraham was even conceived. He said that it is presented this way in certain Bible versions due to the work of the scribes... that although John wrote in Aramaic (and so his phrasing makes sense in that language), the transliteration to Greek was awkward and resulted in this phrasing. He said that it is exactly as when I translate from Spanish to English - in many cases the words in the phrasing are transposed. But, no one has to take my word for it. And I get it if you need to believe it reads this way...
he was telling them that He was Jehovah, the God of their Fathers, and the God of the whole Earth. And they understood
exactly what He was saying, for they took up stones to kill him, but He passed from their midst.
Hmmmm... that's not what my Lord has said to ME, dear Cold Steel. To the contrary, he has said to me that he came forth FROM the Father, he being the Holy One of Israel, and that Father, JAH of Armies (whom you call "Jehovah")... being the MOST Holy One of Israel. Just as the temple depicts. And they took stones to kill him because he was saying that he was the SON of God, dear one.
There is no angel who will not be born into mortality,
Angels are not born, dear one. They are created (i.e., came forth out of nothing). And all of them have been created - there are no new ones coming. Contrastly, sons are born (come forth out of something). And it is the sons who will be "born AGAIN"... this time, in spirit bodies. Angels, however, are not sons, contrary to what some of the scribes may have erroneously written. They were created to MINISTER... to God, His Son Christ, and those who become His sons... by means of an anointing... and thus, "fertilization" (of the seed of the Woman)... with holy spirit.
nor is there any man who was not a “son of God” before the world was.
There are, dear one. The children of the Devil, including those my Lord referred to as "offspring of vipers."
When the disciples saw the blind man, they said, “Master, who did sin, this man or his parents that he was born blind?”
One has to either believe in reincarnation, or one must accept the inevitable conclusion that the man existed and was
capable of sinning before he was born.
OR... one can look to my Lord's explanation, as such is recorded:
"Now as he was passing along he saw a man blind from birth.And his disciples asked him: “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, so that he was born blind?” [Jesus] answered: “Neither this man sinnednor his parents,but it was in order that the works of God might be made manifest in his case." John 9:1-3
Many people who have near death experiences report feelings of returning home, and while the WBTS says these
are hallucinations caused by drugs, I've experienced such hallucincation - and what those halluncinations lack is
something experienced by many NDEs, and that is amazing continuity. (I took too much medicine one night years
ago and my wife said I had seen oranges and pumpkins on TV, and I remember telling her that. But there was no
continuity. Everything was a swirl, and everything was changing.)
Interesting... and, unfortunately, beyond my ability to comment... because I have neither had an NDE... nor a hallucination (well, that wasn't drug-induced). I have, however, been in spirit... on many, MANY, occasions... and I was neither near death, on drugs, or hallucinating. I wasn't even asleep.
But you’re correct in much of what you said.
I am glad you think so, dear Cool! You, too, are correct... in some of what you said... and I cannot deny that.
The servant of God, but a slave to none!
I totally understand... and, again, bid you peace!
YOUR servant,
SA, a doulos (i.e., Greek for "slave") of Christ - Revelation 1:1; 6:11; 7:3; 19:5; 22:3, 6... as well as Luke 12:37; Acts 2:18; Romans 6:16, 22; 1 Corinthians 7:22, 23; Philippians 1:1; 1 Peter 2:16