"And they will rule as kings and priests..." where?

by AGuest 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest

    To the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with... may you all have peace!

    There has been much debate over the location from where my Lord and his co-kings/priests rule. Some say "on" the earth. Others "upon" the earth. And yet others (and we know who they are)... "over" the earth. The WTBTS cites the Greek word "epi" as proof that Christ will rule "over" the earth. But is that word such proof? Let's take a look:

    The Greek word "epi," found at Revelation 5:10, means:

    1) upon, on, at, by, before 2) of position, on, at, by, over, against 3) to, over, on, at, across, against

    Well, looks like it very well could mean "over" the earth. Yes? Not quite... and the WTBTS itself proves that it does NOT. How so? I don't know how many of you remember or have even seen it, but inside the cover of the "Kingdom Interlinear Translations of the Greek Scriptures" (the purple book formerly titled "Diaglott" there is a WONDERFUL diagram that shows just how wrong the WTBTS is on the matter.

    The diagram depicts an oval with various titled arrows and lines. For example, to the left of the oval is a line titled "before. To its right, a line titled "after." In the center at the top is an arrow pointing up titled "up" and at the center of the bottom of the oval is an arrow pointing down titled "down." There is an arrow to the left pointing to the right and toward the center of the oval title "into"... and another arrow leading from the far right line of the oval and pointing to the right titled "from". There is arrow starting to the left of the oval, then passing through it, and exiting on the right titled "through." There is an arrow starting to the left of the oval and ending at the left line titled "toward," and another leading from inside the oval to the outside right of the oval titled "out of". There is a line inside the oval, in the bottom third, touching neither the left nor the right lines titled "in." There is another OUTSIDE of the oval, to its direct right, titled "beside."

    You may be getting the picture by now, but if not you could try drawing it based on my description above, if you don't have a copy of the book.

    There are three VERY interesting lines, however, two of which are MOST interesting. The third interesting line is located just below the bottom of the oval (but not touching the oval)... and is titled "below." The NEXT most interest line is drawn across the top of... and TOUCHING the top of the oval... and it is titled "upon." It, thus, rests upon the top of the oval. The Greek word here, dear ones... is "epi." Here, for the purposes of this diagram, "epi" means... "upon." But... that is not the MOST interesting line. Are you seeing where I'm going here?

    The MOST interesting line is one just ABOVE the top of the oval... but NOT TOUCHING the oval. It is the only CURVED line in the diagram... and follows the curve of the top of the oval. Like a kind of partial "horizon" line. And THAT line is titled... "OVER." And the Greek word here? It is NOT "epi" dear ones... which is the Greek word used in the Revelation. The Greek work HERE... the word depicting "over"... as in "they rule OVER the earth"... is spelled "ypsilon, pi, epsilon, hro"... or "YPER".

    If, dear ones, the rulership of the holy ones was truly going to be OVER the earth (i.e., from a heavenly position that is not UPON the earth)... THIS word... "yper" (or "uper")... would have been used in the Greek. It was not, however; the Greek word "epi" was used... and means that the rulership will be UPON the earth.

    THAT is why New Jerusalem COMES down out of heaven... and HOW Gog and Ma'gog are able to encircle her.

    May the one that has ears hear and get the sense of this truth. May you hear when the Spirit and Bride says to YOU:

    "Come! All you who are thirsting! Come! All you who are wishing! Come!... take 'life's water'... the holy spirit of God... which spirit is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit... my Lord and yours... JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... and which spirit will teach YOU... so that you do not need ANY to be teaching you... FREE!"

    Again, peace to you and your entire households!

    YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with them... and a slave of Christ,


  • tec

    I got the sense of this truth on your last post to Alice. It was very clear.

    Thank you :)


  • AGuest

    You are VERY welcome, dear Tec... and the greatest of love and peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,


  • VM44

    What if they don't want to rule as a king or a priest?

    Do they have any choice?

    Just because those were the top positions in ancient Isarel doesn't mean everyone aspires to those jobs.


    Really! 144,000 kings a & priests. How on earth, or not on earth in this case, can this small planet have so many kings? There can't be that many thrones in heaven. They will be little more than mayors while the Jehovah and Jesus coalition really decide everything. The top jobs will go to those millions of angels. Those that haven't fallen that is.

    In any case after 1000 years they will all be made redundant. What will they do then - Get a paper round? Has anyone actually thought this through. Perhaps they will have to take their turn stoking up the fires in hell and inflicting eternal torment on the wicked. Now that sound like a real job for these hot-shots.

    I'll stick with my job in the Colosseum thanks. Gladiators will always be sought after.

  • AGuest
    Do they have any choice?

    Of course, dear VM44 (peace to you!). Everyone does... always.


    A slave of Christ,


  • PSacramento

    From my reading and understanding, coupled with reading a few commentaries, the only translation that reads it over is the Darby' one and all the other ones read "on" the Earth and in that case they say "over" in the sense of "rule over" as opposed to a location ( over) something.

    Its pretty obvious from that and you are very correct to point that out.

    The 24 elders are in Heaven, as are the souls of those slain, as is the great crowd and those that are to be made kings will rule ON the Earth.

  • Leolaia
    There has been much debate over the location from where my Lord and his co-kings/priests rule. Some say "on" the earth. Others "upon" the earth. And yet others (and we know who they are)... "over" the earth. The WTBTS cites the Greek word "epi" as proof that Christ will rule "over" the earth.

    The NWT correctly renders epi as "over", inasmuch as it indicates a non-spatial relation of power, just as it is in Revelation 2:26: "I will give him authority over the nations (epi tón ethnón)" (cf. also Luke 19:14, Romans 9:5, Ephesians 4:6). A king ruling over his subjects is not necessarily literally above them. The Watchtower Society however forgets this correct understanding of epi in Revelation 5:10 and substitutes a spatial reading in its interpretation of the verse.

    *** w06 8/15 pp. 6-7 "As in Heaven, Also Upon Earth" ***

    This salvation with two destinies, heavenly and earthly, is mentioned in a vision seen by the apostle John. He saw kings on heavenly thrones who had been chosen from among Christ’s faithful disciples. The Bible specifically states regarding these associates of Christ that "they are to rule as kings over the earth." (Revelation 5:9, 10) Note the dual aspect in the accomplishing of God’s purpose -- a restored earth under the direction of a heavenly Kingdom made up of Jesus Christ and his joint heirs.

    *** w78 3/1 p. 21 par. 1 “The Kingdom of Our Lord and of His Christ” Takes Over ***

    Then they will no longer be earthly subjects of a spiritual kingdom of Christ, but they will be kings with him in heaven. This prospect agrees with the words of Revelation 5:9, 10, addressed to Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God: "With your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth."

    *** w74 12/1 pp. 735-736 Questions From Readers ***

    The basic significance of the Greek word epi is "on" or "upon," but that is not the only meaning. When used in connection with power, authority or dignity, epi can also mean "over."

    Numerous Biblical examples illustrate this. God is referred to in the Bible as being "over [epi] all." (Rom. 9:5; Eph. 4:6) The Ethiopian eunuch was "over [epi] all" the treasure of Candace. (Acts 8:27) The "faithful and discreet slave" is appointed by his master "over [epi] his domestics." (Matt. 24:45) Seven certified men were to be selected by the Jerusalem congregation that the apostles might "appoint them over [epi] this necessary business" of food distribution. (Acts 6:3) Clearly, in all these instances the Greek word epi followed by the genitive case cannot be translated "on" or "upon," but, in harmony with the context, is properly rendered "over." —Note also Revelation 9:11; 11:6.

    Likewise, at Revelation 5:10, those entrusted with rulership are in charge of the earth, exercising dominion over those dwelling on it. The subject matter of this text is rulership, and logically, therefore, the Greek word epi calls attention, not to the location of the rulers, but to the area over which they exercise authority. That they rule "over the earth" agrees with the rest of the Scriptures, which reveal that God’s kingdom by Christ is heavenly and that Jesus’ associate rulers are promised heavenly life.

    This last discussion is quite amazing because the Society here recognizes that epi here is non-spatial and does not indicate "the location of the rulers," and yet in the very next sentence they ignore this entirely and claim that the wording is relevant to the rulers having "heavenly life" and the kingdom they rule as heavenly. They do this by assuming that the area over which they exercise authority is somehow indicative after all of the location of the rulers. This is tantamount to arguing that since the President of the United States exercises authority over the United States, he is not located in the United States.

  • PSacramento

    Actually Leo, it is pretty typical of the WT, they make a correct point and then end with an erroneous conclusion to enforce one of their erroneous doctrines.

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