My Standing "Bet" With JW Family

by TD 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • garyneal

    Kind of like how the reporters fact check presidential speaches. Brilliant.


    When I speak to you it appears if I'm speaking with Edward Norton, someone with one of the sharper intellects that posts here. I've never come across someone in the Christian congregation with an unbelieving mate that would actual study unless they came into the Truth, let alone arrive at your level of Bible teachings, so your claim always made me wonder.

    jv chap. 10 p. 131 Growing in Accurate Knowledge of the Truth

    Barbour referred to the idea that Christ by his death paid the penalty for sin for the offspring of Adam as being “unscriptural, and obnoxious to all our ideas of justice.”

    In short, paying the penalty for sin for the offspring of Adam simply means atonement for imperfection we cannot correct ourselves, not sins for which one is unrepentant, especially grave errors. The atonement of a perfect man paves the way for the restoration of a perfect society. Most secular minded individuals have difficulty comprehending spiritual matters or taking them seriously.

    For the speech about the torture stake is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is God’s power. For it is written: “I will make the wisdom of the wise [men] perish, and the intelligence of the intellectual [men] I will shove aside.” Where is the wise man? Where the scribe? Where the debater of this system of things? Did not God make the wisdom of the world foolish? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not get to know God, God saw good through the foolishness of what is preached to save those believing. 1 Corinthians 1:18-21

    For who among men knows the things of a man except the spirit of man that is in him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God, except the spirit of God. Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God. These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by [the] spirit, as we combine spiritual [matters] with spiritual [words].

    But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually. However, the spiritual man examines indeed all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:11-16

    Will Science Create a Perfect Society?

  • MrFreeze

    Nope Alice. Science will not create a perfect society, but it'll come far closer than the WT ever well.


    The truth of the matter is regardless of the honesty of what is written on printed page (including the Bible) about God, this is not concrete evidence for God. The only evidence for this in our time is God's active force. Some religions make claims to this end and this is what one person said about it:

    Has matter/energy always existed?

    "On the contrary, is any religion able to prove that a soul/spirit exists? You can quote the Bible all you want or claim that you "feel" the energy inside you, but I'll claim that it is just normal brain chemistry combined with mythologies learned through enculturation and socialization."

    So it's something a person has to investigate themselves.

  • notverylikely

    Alice, I need to know if you are hot AND crazy or just crazy. If it's hot AND crazy....i might be willing to put up with you, provided you send proof of your hotness. Otherwise, if you're crazy, mouthy and ugly...step the hell off, kiddo.

  • edward612

    yeah, much proof??

  • TD


    Every situation is different and mine is no exception. I'm obviously not the typical unbelieving spouse who had never even heard of the JW's until his wife started studying with them.

    My grandparents were Bible Students and contemporaries of Russell. As a young adult, I became enamored with the Witnesses myself and studied for awhile, but things fell apart completely over the blood issue. Seeing first hand how life could be lost in obedience to a position that is reversed just a short time later was the end for me.

    For whatever it's worth though, I don't hate the Witnesses (It would hardly be possible to be happily married to one otherwise.) and actually try to defend them from some of the more outrageous claims that fly around the internet. Why the Bethel speakers get turned around on details that even somebody like me understands is a mystery.


    "Nope Alice. Science will not create a perfect society, but it'll come far closer than the WT ever well."

    A supreme being (mankind's creator) would restore humanity to its original perfect state, not an organization disconnected from God. This makes more sense than people floating off to heaven or hell for the indefinite future of planet earth after their temporary, physical housing gives out.

  • Mary
    Those that advocate the latter believe that Christ removed the death sentence that was hanging over your head, but your sinful state is unchanged in God's sight

    Just a side-question: If Christ's death removed the death sentence hanging over our heads, but our "sinful state is unchanged in God's sight", then what good is Christ's ransom?

  • bohm

    "Just a side-question: If Christ's death removed the death sentence hanging over our heads, but our "sinful state is unchanged in God's sight", then what good is Christ's ransom?"

    convoluted, circular wordplay inbound in 3, 2, ...

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