"Neither be called leaders" vs "Obey your leaders"

by Bonnie_Clyde 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Bonnie_Clyde

    I'm trying to harmonize Matt. 23:10 with Hebrews 13:17. Any thoughts? Or is this a contradiction?

    Matt. 23:10 "Neither be called 'leaders' for your Leader is one, the Christ." Heb. 13:17 "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive." Some translations say "Obey your leaders."


  • wasblind

    I guesss you can obey your leaders up to certain point,

    but just like the boreans you need to keep making sure what they say is true and backed by scripture.

    If and ain't backed by scripture, it's poison Kool aid.

  • Bonnie_Clyde

    Yes. I just looked back a few verses, Heb:13:7, "Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns our imitate their faith." I just don't like the word, "obey."

  • debator

    It's understanding the authority that Jesus handed down but that ultimately he is the king. It is very honest of you to see that this needs harmonising and not just picking the one you prefer.

    2 Corinthians 10:8
    For even if I boast somewhat freely about the authority the Lord gave us for building you up rather than pulling you down, I will not be ashamed of it.

    Titus 2:15
    These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

  • designs

    'I'm the Bishop'....'no I'm the Bishop'

  • blondie

    WT explanations (circular)

    *** it-2 p. 228 Leader, Noble, Prince ***Jesus is referred to as “Messiah the Leader” and “a leader and commander to the national groups,” at Daniel 9:25 and Isaiah 55:4. He counseled his disciples: “Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for your Leader [ka·the·ge·tes′] is one, the Christ.” (Mt 23:10) As regards the Christian congregation, Jesus Christ is the only one rightly bearing the title “Leader,” because no imperfect human is the leader of true Christians; they follow Christ. While there are those who ‘take the lead’ in God’s service, they are not titled “leader” or addressed as such, and their example is to be followed only as they imitate Christ.—1Co 11:1; Heb 13:7.

    *** w63 2/15 p. 107 par. 13 Walking with God ***This “slave” provides leadership and spiritual food by means of appointed servants, meetings of various kinds and printed publications.

    *** w61 6/1 p. 339 par. 17 Loving Use of What We Are Given ***No doubt is left that the overseers in the New World society today have the greatest responsibility in the building program. They must be trainers and teachers, setting good examples of leadership in the field and continually interested in young and old, men and women, yes, all the individuals making up the New World society today.

    *** w59 6/15 p. 363 par. 7 Shepherding the Sheep with Skillfulness ***For one to give good advice, an overseer must be “nourished with the words of the faith” and follow closely “right teaching.” Then he can shepherd the flock of God skillfully. “He that presides [acts as leader], let him do it in real earnest; he that shows mercy, let him do it with cheerfulness.” (Rom. 12:8, footnote) An overseer must “act as leader” if he is selected to preside over the congregation.


    I always wondered, isn't a leader one who leads? Isn't "taking the lead" one who leads, make the elders "leaders"?

  • wobble

    The problem between the two scriptures arises because "Matthew" was written way after Paul had written his words, and started to build a house-church system that necessarily needed a leadership structure.

    The Gospel may contain here a genuine teaching of Jesus, one which if all "appointed men", in any religion, took to heart, would stop any getting above themselves.

  • debator

    Hi wibble

    Before Paul the apostles in acts and romans recognise their leadership roles so don't lay this on Paul. It is recognised as a gift.

    Acts 1:20
    "For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, " 'May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, " 'May another take his place of leadership.'

    Romans 12:6-8
    6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his [a] faith. 7 If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach;if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

  • luna2

    Isn't this typical of the WTS, though? Do this, like this...then do the opposite. But somehow, through a lot of gobbledegook double talk, they rationalize the dichotomy and, voila, by the time they are done with their "explainations", the sheep are either asleep from boredom or so confused that they figure they are too stupid to understand these "deeper things".

  • freydo

    It all gets down to men having positions in organizations and thinking they're more important than they are.


    kathegetes 1) a guide;
    2) a master, teacher- from


    1) to lead

    a) to go before

    b) to be a leader

    1) to rule, command

    2) to have authority over

    3) a prince, of regal power, governor, viceroy, chief, leading as respects influence, controlling in counsel, overseers or leaders of the churches

    4) used of any kind of leader, chief, commander

    5) the leader in speech, chief, spokesman

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