Most JW's are Concerned with Position/Appearance - Not Serving God

by flipper 37 Replies latest jw friends

  • RosePetal

    Hi flipper This RosePetals hubby Mr.Bumble don't post very often with wify on here all the time LOL. I enjoyed your observation from your long experience. I can very much relate to your observation of position within the cong. as that seems to be the carrot and the stick. For those that are genuine individuals who work hard to achieve a position often notice this more than the rest.

    As a person who has not enjoyed the best of health over the years I felt it a great achievement to attain to ms and felt it was a real opportunity to serve the brothers and make some kind of difference. I was never encouraged or felt pressured to become ms in fact the elders went out their way to block me. Despite ill health my wife and I gave the elders no where to go because of our service record but the nature of the way the org. is structured still made me have doubts reg. my motives was I attaining the pos. to serve or was it just simply to get respect and be socially acceptable in the cong. ?

    As anyone who suffers from ill health even if they give 200% and then on another oc. give 50% are looked on as unreliable and a poor excuse for a pub. never mind the widows mite. However I felt I was doing it for God and family and got my head down and tried to champion those who were considered unworthy. That was the kiss of death for me ever becoming an elder. One of the things I have always found difficult and which contributed to my final exit was the ability of elders and ms. and their wives and children to judge their brothers and sisters without any conscience. To conform to this mentality many in positions of oversight can and have fallen into this trap.

    At one point I was beginning to dislike myself because it was starting to rub off. I had to pull back and take a long good look at myself, yes I had plenty of faults but they were my faults I didn't like developing attitudes that were org. motivated.

    One example was I was on the field service and I worked along with an elder who had just moved in but was not yet re-appointed. The first thing he asked me was what was my position in the cong.? The second question was did I know a certain family I said yes they are a lovely family he is a hard working brother supporting his wife and six children. I feel he has a real love for the brothers and a genuine love for God. His question was motivated by wanting a negative response from me and he didn't get it as he then made the comment 'well others have told me that they don't get to all the meetings they are irregular on field service. And he has a goaty 'sound familiar'?

    This is by no means an extreme example but this shows that this attitude is learned not by studying the Bible or asking for Gods spirit but by listening to the mentality of the org. this is just the tip of the ice berg there were far more serious attitudes and issues involved in my final exit which I will eventually post but I will say this the very last elders and ms meeting held at the assembly hall finally hit home that the unloving attitude and bullying tactics of many 'not all' of those in postions was coming from the centre of the org. it was time for me to start doing my homework. I have been baptised for nearly 30 yrs and I thought any problems could be repaired from within, about fifteen years ago I started to doubt that this was the case you are absolutely right the organistion is all about position, authority, and looking good, for many self serving rather than serving brothers.

    Mr. Bumble

  • Bonnie_Clyde

    We had a circuit overseer who announced from the platform that he was leaving the circuit work because his daughter was having triplets and he felt that she needed his help. I had great respect for that man (wish I could remember his name).

  • JediMaster

    a brother in my hall once made a comment in a WT study, where he referred to brothers and sisters with no “privileges” as the “one more”, in Spanish… los “uno mas”)

    Disgusting!!!!! That shows just how spiritual he really was.

    But to answer to the topic of this thread: YES YES YES YES. During my active years, I was able to serve in many congregations in at least 3 countries. And the show was always on to let others know how much "progress" you were making, or how your "advancement was being made manifest" to others. It was all a big fake just to put on a pretense. I met pioneers who'd go out for 70 full hours and still no studies or RV's, elders and MS with no knowledge of the Bible whatsoever and yet these were the very ones who enjoyed all the special privileges, meetings and encouragement from the visiting CO. I remember once, when I was finally on my way to the bottom, the CO was visiting, I had already been reproved by then. I was expecting a "shepherding call or something, NOTHING. The CO spent all his time dinning and picniquing with the elders' families and those doing "more". Yeah, right. It's a system they have created were they always pressure you to do more and have high expectations of you but they never really help you attain any of it, as it is all huge popularity contest. Someone in your family must be well known or popular or likable to the elders or the CO to get appointed, otherwise. After struggling many years to become an elder I gave up after someone at age 22, (the son-in-law of the PO) became one. That's when I just let the matter drop. I was so infuriated. By the way, both these "elders" have made the lives of many many witnesses miserable to the point of leaving. I guess they were the lucky ones.

    Even though I never made it to be an elder I was always considered very very strong in the truth. And my best friends and those I got alon with the best were always considered "weak" spiritually" just becasue they didn't have any privileges. I knew them very well, and I knew for a fact they were so much more spiritual than many of those holding positions in the congregation. And just like it has been stressed, they seemed to have a better relationship with God than many others, probably including myself.

    Jedi Master

  • JediMaster
    the organistion is all about position, authority, and looking good, for many self serving rather than serving brothers.

    Amen to that Rose Petal.


  • onemore

    Among the many things that made me doubt the validity of the organization, was the attitude of those with “privileges”. Elders and MS were supposed to “serve” the congregation, but it was the other way around, to their eyes, they were above the congregation and the congregation was there to obey and fallow their commands, in other words, the servants became the masters. That’s how it works in the JW’s world, and those sincere men that really want to serve get burned, chewed up and drained.

    Positions have always been a measuring stick of one’s spirituality. I’ve noticed that posturing spirituality by attaining positions and so called “privileges”, is becoming more relevant than being a good spiritual Christian.

    There are many James and John in the Watchtower Organization….

    Matthew 20:20-21; 24-27.

    20 Then the mother of James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to Jesus with her sons. She knelt respectfully to ask a favor. 21 “What is your request?” he asked. She replied, “In your Kingdom, please let my two sons sit in places of honor next to you , one on your right and the other on your left.”…..

    24 When the ten other disciples heard what James and John had asked, they were indignant. 25 But Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. 26 But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first among you must become your slave. 28 For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

    P.S. wife and I always joke about that comment. In another meeting, a sister said that she carefully examines what her friends in the “thruth” are doing for the organization, so to determine whether they are and continue to be “good association” for her. You know…she wants be encouraged to keep serving in her full time ministry.

  • blondie

    When I first read the title of this topic, I thought it would be going a slightly different direction. My observations were that elders and other jws were more concerned with what humans saw or found out about them and would do what they could to conceal or hide their unchristian or inhumane actions and statements. They never cared that if they truly believed that God saw all things, that he was seeing what they were doing and only he had the power over life and death.

    (Ezekiel 8:12) 12 And he proceeded to say to me: “Have you seen, O son of man, what the elderly ones of the house of Israel are doing in the darkness, each one in the inner rooms of his showpiece? For they are saying, ‘Jehovah is not seeing us. Jehovah has left the land.’”
  • JWoods

    I can tell you that I personally knew a number of elders (this was back when the elder arrangement was first created) who accepted it only for their own personal status.

    In one case, there was a guy who refused or avoided ANY elder responsibility other than giving the traveling hour talks. This guy NEVER TO ANYONE's KNOWLEDGE EVER WENT FROM DOOR TO DOOR or did any other kind of "field service". He turned in time, assumption was made that it was had by "incidental witnessing". He was fairly well off and was a reasonably generous contributor to the congregation. He was also one of the most arrogant persons I have ever run into - inside or out of the JW world.

    I heard from inside sources years after I left in 1979 that he was eventually deleted by a new CO for "insincerity".

    This was an extreme example - but not the only one that held the position of servant or elder out of desire for the sake of appearances.

  • WTWizard

    Many times, they hound you. I remember being hounded to pio-sneer all the time. I would just do what I could reasonably could, and they wanted me to quit my job (what was I supposed to live off of) and pio-sneer full time. It got so I could not do it, simply because it would be for them and not God if I did--and therefore, it would be in vain. I never quit my job or pio-sneered. Eventually, God Himself lost my trust and I quit doing anything at all.

  • Lozhasleft

    My ex was desperate for 'position' in the congregation was all he thought about...I used to say to him 'it really isnt what's important ...its your heart that matters' but he thought I was stupid...he eventually became a MS but then when he wasnt appointed as an elder after a few years he forced us to move house to go to another cong where he expected to be appointed didnt happen thankfully...however during this time I really did see not only how much it mattered to the men or the majority in there to be a 'something' in the org but also what damage the appointments did to apparently good kind men ....not good, any of it...

    Loz x

  • LongHairGal


    You are right, it is all about appearances and climbing that corporate ladder. I think, however, this pressure was greater on the 'brothers'. I noticed they just would not leave certain content brothers alone! They really badgered them.

    I was in the minority and had no desire to seek a 'title' in the religion. But, since I was 'just' a 'sister' nobody really cared. No offense to anybody here, but I felt it was silly. I had no desire to be known as a pioneer or anything else and was rather baffled at why people wanted to. I didn't need to hear people clap.

    I always felt if somebody was sincere in serving Jehovah - why not just put the time in without seeking to be known by the title of 'pioneer'? In effect, they are just blowing a horn.

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