Have you realized bible teaches judgement based on THIS life, no 'free' 2nd chance?

by EndofMysteries 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • EndofMysteries

    Most of us been taught that those who 'die' before GT, get a free clean slate in resurrection, in essence, they can do anything they want now, but those who are unlucky to be alive during the GT better have it right or too late.

    Read every scripture speaking about the GT and the resurrection, and I can't find any that support that. Seems all die, and in the day of judgement, are raised up to be judged according to what you did while alive. (only possible chance out is faith, messiah, etc)

    Also, that it's 'after' the thousand year reign AND people continue to die during the 1,000 year reign.

    If any actual scriptural support for resurrection during it, that people don't die during it, and that those who die before GT are raised up and live on earth 1,000 years before judgement, post it here.

  • trueblue

    I am a bit rusty, haven't been around JW's for several years, and never been baptized, don't have scripture for you, and don't know what GT stands for but I thought that it was the ones that never really had a chance to know the truth and died would get a second chance during the 1,000 year rein and the ones that knew better did not get a second chance. We don't know who has had a fair chance or who is pleasing to God for only God can read the heart so and we can't judge only God can. We don't know but can only hope to see our loved ones again. And I was under the impression that the ones that got a second chance and did not follow up on there second chance that those are the ones that would be dieing off during the 1,000 year rein.

  • ssn587

    EOM couldn't agree more with you, however the Wt doesn't want you to think that because it would mess up their thugology and control factor for the subserviant.They constantly twist scripture to fit their wants and needs i'st all about $$$ and control.

  • EndofMysteries

    Trueblue - your pretty much correct on what they 'teach' but as for what the bible says.......o and GT is Great Tribulation

    (If anybody knows scriptures showing otherwise please add them, I like looking at the the whole picture, but these here are what stand out to me right now...)

    We'll start w/ what JW's use on the 1,000 years,,,,,Rev 20:4, 5, 12 - ""And they came to life and ruled as Kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The REST of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6. Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years. ((((So far seems only those ruling as kings and priests during the 1,000 years are alive, don't see anything showing anybody being brought back on the earth...))))

    Vs 12, AFTER the thousand years have ended......."And I saw the DEAD, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened, it is the SCROLL OF LIFE. And the dead were JUDGED out of THOSE THINGS WRITTEN in the scrolls ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS. vs 15 Whoever was not found written in the scroll of life was hurled into the lake of fire.

    There is a lot more to post...too tired, but all scriptures I've read on judging, (those who don't know will show to have my law in their hearts, things don't out of bad conscience is a sin, etc), if you read the bible or not, should know from your inner voice that murder is wrong, so God can still see who is righteous and by looking at their heart, and KNOWING what they know, if they are righteous or not. If if what they are doing or not is due to lack of knowing or whats in their heart.

  • tec

    EOM - I am with you on this. I would just like to add something that I've been pondering: If the thousand years is symbolic, then I find that the possible understandings are not so confined.

    Jesus is the resurrection and the life.

    Those who believe in Jesus have been brought over from death to life. I tend to think that this is the first resurrection. If so, then it is ongoing -and longer than a thousand years. It would then mean that all those who are alive in Jesus have no fear of the second death. For everyone else, who are not alive in Jesus, who are spiritually dead ( and I believe that this would include all those who say that they belong to Him, but really do not ), then they are judged according to their deeds/heart.

    Anyway, that's my quick two cents on this topic. I do not see scriptural evidence that people get a second chance at 'proving' themselves, nor does it make any sense to me.


  • palmtree67

    I agree, Tammy. This is one of the teachings that never made sense to me, either.

  • StAnn

    I don't remember ever hearing during my time in the WTS that some people would die during the 1,000 year reign. Is this a relatively recent teaching, say after 1985? I missed it.

    I was taught that people would be resurrected and the surviving JWs would teach them da troof. At the end of the 1,000 year reign, Satan would be loosed and those who weren't sincere would show their true colors during that time and then there would be a judgment and they'd be destroyed. Or at least that's how my mamma presented it to me in our little Bible studies.


  • EndofMysteries

    I'll add some more now since got some participation ;) I'm gonna go a little deeper now.....tie some things into the 144,000/elect.

    Thanks for that angle Tammy, I'll keep it in consideration as I continue study........though I don't belive the early Christians believed it that way.

    First, another big misconception is that ALL Christians of the 1st century were 'annointed'. I can't find ANY scripture that supports that either. There are actually 'two' heavenly hopes (for those of you studying and getting confused on predestination and being selected after the fact).

    The apostle Paul, he was 'seeking out' and in a sense on the race to 'attain' a 'greater calling'. An open door, which one can seek out if they want.

    Hebrews 11:35 shows that some early christians were looking for a 'better' resurrection. "35 Women received their dead by resurrection; but other [men] were tortured because they would not accept release by some ransom, in order that they might attain a better resurrection." - it does not say 'a' but it says 'attain a better'.

    What would be a 'better' resurrection?

    Paul and Timothy say this in Phillipians 3:9 'On account of him I have taken the loss of all things and I consider them as a lot of refuse, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in union with him, having, not my own righteousness, which results from law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness that issues from God on the basis of faith, 10 so as to know him and the power of his resurrection and a sharing in his sufferings, submitting myself to a death like his, 11 [to see] if I may by any means attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead."

    So Paul and Timothy were trying to 'attain an earlier' resurrection.

    What IS the earlier resurrection?

    1 Cor 15:21 - For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing

    So the order of the resurrection or being made alive is this......1. Christ(annointed) 2. Those who BELONG TO HIM during his presence BUT before he begins ruling as King 3. The end, when he hands over the Kingdom to GOd, as death is brought to nothing, and he hands over the kingdom at the end of the thousand years does he not?

    Revelation 20:4,5 - 6. Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.

    So Paul was TRYING TO ATTAIN to the first resurrection, the 'better' resurrection, in which he could rule as Kings and Priests for the 1,000 year reign.

    There is a LOT more talking about this....but don't want to make this comment overloaded.

    A question many may be thinking......why would JW's/GB teach or come up with something not even in the bible? Evidently( ;p ), they were teaching until about 1930 that EVERYONE who accepted them and the truth, WAS part of these annointed, they were all having a heavenly hope. When they realized that over 144,000 may be part of the numbers, they did read about the great crowd of other sheep, who get out of the great tribulation. Now since the bible teaches that those who are NOT serving as kings and priests come to light after the 1,000 years, can you imagine them saying and preaching that some of us will have life right away, and most of you will have to wait another 1,000 years?? Not that it matters when your dead, a day or a million years would seem like a blink of the eye.

    - PS - this is not the full answer, there is a lot more to it. Check the scriptures and see if it agrees or disagrees. (again there are 2 heavenly hopes, so if someone posts or finds a contradiction, I'll post more)

  • StAnn

    What two heavenly hopes? You either go to heaven or you don't. I don't think this anointed stuff flies outside of the WTS. I've never heard of it anywhere else.


  • mkr32208

    Thats because the jokers who wrote that crap knew deep down in their heart of hearts that the end would never come so what did it matter?

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