by AllTimeJeff 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • AllTimeJeff

    This is an internet board. As such, what makes it relevant, cool, or otherwise, are the people who choose to make themselves a part of this particular community.

    Internet forums of any stripe have regulars, visitors, curious, lurkers, and of course, trolls. JW internet communities are no different.

    Many regulars who are here used to be JW's, and left for one reason or another. With very good reasons. Other's got kicked out, shunned, and need support. I sincerely hope to any lurking JW that you don't mind if "we" apostates (who resent being called evil just so you are tricked into not listening to what we have to say) support them.

    I will be the first to admit that former JW's are EXTREMELY sensitive when a JW, or a JW troll (I realize there is a difference) gets on here and insists that things with JW's are going well, when in fact, they are not. For example, many of us have had to deal with the many pedophiles running around right now. It gets good people angry.

    And yes, MOST former JW's on this forum are GOOD PEOPLE. Just because we don't underline our WT in 10 minutes for show before going to Sunday meeting to keep up appearances doesn't mean we aren't good people.

    Some members of this board feel that trolls are here to make us apostates look bad. Yet, I would be willing to bet a good amount of money that you are lurking, and reading this, because you know, you have seen, you feel, that something just isn't right.

    So these trolls want you to think that apostates are idiots. Please.

    I credit you lurkers with WAY more intelligence then that.

    I hope that in time, you lurking JW's will expand on the freedom that allowed you to come here, that you will conquer the guilt, and that you will consider the information here, and esp on sites like and learn about your religion, the way JW's insist on showing everyone else the negative on their religions, at their doorstep.

    In reality, the work I used to do as a missionary and pioneer was to make apostates out of everyone else, insist they read our literature only, while not reading their literature about us.

    JW's aren't allowed to listen to apostates or read critical literature for one reason: There is a lot, a TON in it that contains disturbing truths about JW's, the history, the lies (lots of them) the failed prophecies (every one of them).

    Here is a fun one JW lurkers. Go to the library, and find which date is the fall of Jerusalem's destruction, 587/586 BCE or 607? Does one independent source verify the date of Jerusalem's destruction in support of JW dogma, and the related date 1914?

    If you find it, pass it on to me, and I will be back in a Kingdom Hall.

    More could be said, but the truth of the matter is, its really up to you, how honest you are, and how much crap you want to put up with. That part is up to you.

    But most JW's who leave actually DON'T come here, most just learn the truth about da troof and move on. Others come here. You are more then welcome to do your own thing. Doing your own thing is the one thing that scares the Governing Body most of all. I mean, they baptize between 2-300,000 a year, and it takes 10 years to gain a million more members. Look at the yearbooks and you do the math.

    Wishing you lurking JW's peace. And please understand why "we" here sometimes go after JW trolls. They aren't here to talk, just stir up crap. But like I said, I think you are smart enough to know that.

  • Mall Cop
    Mall Cop

    Very nice Jeff. Captives of a concept is the main reason that lurkers can't or won't investigate their history or break away. That chain has to be broken before they can start to fade or make a clean break.

    Believing that the society passed the test made by Jesus in 1919 without checking it for themselves will keep them captive.

    the 607 challenge is a good one to look up also.

    Those who do a history study of the Watchtower first ( which my family never did at the time in 1969 ) will never take a Bible study from the door knockers. 33years later we did just that, studied the past history of the Watchtower and that resulted in the "Eye Opener!"

    Blueblades / Mall Cop

  • AllTimeJeff

    Here is the idiodicy of the Governing Body arguement that they want Jehovah's Witnesses to buy.

    Jehovah is the most powerful being in the universe. He is the creator and deserves worship.

    Jehovah, though being the most powerful being in the universe, was not powerful enough to preserve the pronunciation or translation of his name, or to even have it included even once in the Greek Scriptures.

    So Satan has been allowed to fool us humans because Jehovah wanted to prove a point that takes thousands of years while our lifespans aren't even 100. Yet, he isn't as powerful as Jehovah. He is just way more interested in mankind then Jehovah is, right?

    So how does Jehovah turn his attention to the planet he hasn't paid attention to since he supposedly sent his son? By using a super secret code taken from Daniel and Revelation, we come up with a number of 2,520 years from Jerusalems fall, which would put us at the year 1934. Oops!

    Better to count backwards, insist that Jerusalem was actually destroyed in 607 BCE purely for the JW dogmatic convenience so that you can promote 1914, then insist that no JW can read critical literature, or even take seriously ALL OF THE HISTORY BOOKS IN SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, AND LIBRARIES.

    From there, once you shut the door to verify the GB crap, now you can insist that Jesus came invisibly in 1914 (because the GB said so) and that he chose Rutherford and the other jailed members invisibly in 1919 (because the GB says so). And that the generation that saw those years will be around to see Armageddon.

    Oops! Wrong again. Have to change that 50 year old teaching. It wasn't wrong, the light just got brighter.

    Anyway, my point is simple. When you break it down, its really all a bunch of lies. The only reason the GB howls about apostates is that once a person learns this, they leave. They don't ever go back, simply because they know this cooky little group is beyond repair.

  • yknot


    I would like to interject that some of us 'posters' are also current JW who are in good standing.

    We still attend regularly, turn in FS time and otherwise lead normal JW lives.

    This is afterall as JWN's slogan says:

    The place to discuss anything relating to Jehovah's Witnesses and the WatchTower Bible and Tract Society... or just make new friends!

    Likewise I too would like to differientiate between regular JWs and JWTrolls........ Trolls often want to lead people to their own interpretations on matters, thusly cause divisions in their own congregations (some in fact haven't attended in YEARS). These types of people are the most embarrassing to the JW community. They are often belligerent in their comments and show very little grasp of WTS interpretation. They base everything on their personal perceptions rather than what the 'Slave' has actually said or counseled........ that said, they need prayer!

    I personally would love to see more JWs begin to post instead of merely lurking!

    It is great to share experiences and comments on how each others congregations are responding to the Truth and all the exciting changes taking place! All the while also reading about up in coming news from Bethel!

  • AllTimeJeff

    Thats cool Yknot. But you can't expect former JW's who have learned things that contradict the teachings of the Governing Body to not share that.

    But you are cool. :)

  • yknot


    I think that most JWs are perfectly capable of discerning facts for themselves!

    I know the WTS history, the development of 1914/1918, and other really goofy still current but little known beliefs like women bobbing their hair ( and still attend......granted I am not a convert who surely would totally freak-out and feel deceived. I am accepting this is my tradition, much like a Catholic likes going to Mass and confession.

    I see no point in disagreeing with what has been clearly printed in WTS publications and is now found to be embarassing or no longer relevent to today's 'light'......

    I think most R&F can appreciate and discern the WTS in its upper levels have factions, political moves and otherwise are run like any government where personal opinions can and do infiltrate policy/doctrine. (Hence the flip-flopping with each new leadership personality)

    I admit that the WTS has had an active 'dumbing down' campaign since the early 80s (I remember it all too well!)

    However Ted is gone now, it is time to cue the Aladdin/Jasmine Whole New World music!

    The question now remains is whom will be the new 'boss' and how much more will his committee and 'given one' glean from the Mormons...!

    Come on my fellow JWs, join in lets have some good natured speculation on what the next change/twist will be as 2014 looms nearer!

    We can talk freely......... talking, musing and asking questions are okay...... no one is going to freak out and start running around pointing fingers and screaming 'KORAH!, KORAH, KORAH!'

  • AllTimeJeff

    Yknot, I respect you and always have because you are upfront about why you are there. You obviously have low standards for your group, and I totally get the "tradition" thing. Why rock the boat when it isn't your calling and it will only cause you problems.

    I imagine that is why you have your location listed as Syrian Arab Republic. ;) Because you know what would happen if it were found out you were posting here.

    Anyway, its all cool with me. I think its a little pie in the sky to think that JW's are just going to speculate and talk about what is wrong, and what will change, when there is so much that hurts other people.

    But that isn't directed at you personally. You've got your thing, and that is good enough. I don't judge that.

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    I can speak from experience from YEARS of lurking.

    I came here about 7 or 8 years ago (under it's previous guise I guess). I came here because I was NOT happy with JWdom, ... BUT I still believed. I found the fact that you (you lot here) KNEW what was going on, releases, news, rumours etc many months before we would otherwise hear it rather appealing. So I have lurked off and on for a long time gaining information, new view points, logic and analysis. ..gaining in many other ways.

    I have gone thru periods of deliberately avoiding coming here so as to note the change in me and try and become more positive about "The Truth" instead of the increasingly negative I have become, just in case I was being unduely influenced lol. It works for a while the good feeling that comes from what in actuality is "men pleasing", ..trying to (re)build that relationship with Jehovah that we are told is so vital and doing what we are told. But deep down the feeling grew that here I was wasting my one and only chance of life in the pursuit of a dream and procrastinating reality.

    There are some nutters on here and yes some trolls who have passed thru. Why do they come here? I would say that some come here thru being disgruntled in the org, overlooked, ignored, dealt harshly with and are looking for answers even if they are not aware of it. Why do ANY JWs look at what is obviously an ANTI witness forum in the 1st place if not for that reason? Not many would wake up and say to themselves "lets go apostate baiting today" unless they have real underlying mental issues, they like to argue in life in general and would be classed as a PITA anyway by anyone who knew them (i know of people who are like that!), or they have reasoned it's a good way of counting time.

    JWs like me who came here initially may well be hurt by some of what is said on sites such as this. Afterall it is A LOT to take in and dissonance will kick in, the excuses, the well taught reflex responses to what may be percieved as an attack on held beliefs. You have to (and largely do) make allowance for the JW mindset of the seeming apologist, it is a learning curve here and speaking personally I am miles away from what I was 8 years ago, ...not that I was a JW apologist, I just like things to be balanced and fair.

    Im not sure if that made any sense but I havent had much sleep. Im just speaking as a previous lurker who now has the gumption to contribute.

    ATJeff I like your attitude and your reasoning (maybe I should have put that at the start lol..)


  • AllTimeJeff

    Witness My Fury

    Believe me, I understand. I am for understanding, but I at least need to see some ability to be honest on one thing. Be it the pedophile scandal, 1914, anything where they at least admit that yeah, my religion got it wrong and still does.

    That is honest.

    I am happy for you WMF. It is a process to leave. I am glad you are at the point you are. Whether you ultimately choose to hang out on JWN or not is inconsequential to the fact that you are getting out of the fog. Peace!

  • flipper

    ALL TIME JEFF- Good thread. Great points you make. I feel that not only guilt, but fear causes many witnesses to NOT do research into their beliefs as they are told they will be considered " unfaithful " if they consider ANY information outside Jehovah's Witnesses. I had hidden doubts for up to 15 to 20 years before I finally exited - but was fearful of discussing those doubts openly with my large JW family. I think many current JW's have those same fears implanted in them. A fear of reprisal and alienation from JW family that finds out they have doubts.

    But I might add to the lurking witnesses you are talking to here - Please know that many of us Ex- Jehovah's Witnesses are here and will continue to be here for you to help you move on if you do decide to exit the witnesses. So unlike you are told by the WT society that " you'll have nowhere to turn or go for support " - that is simply NOT TRUE. You'll have plenty of support from those of us who have taken a stand for what we thought was right in following our conscience in gaining freedom of mind again. So please know any lurking witness- we will be here with a soft net to catch you and provide support for you

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