Help with a question. Need W-4/1/2010

by maninthemiddle 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Michelle365

    It can be downloaded directly from the source:

  • cantleave

    It is incredible how very little I know about the history of Christianity. I was brought up as a witness, I studied diligently, did much more research than most J-dubs, was an elder for nearly a decade and what do I know? F - all!

    Reading the awake is definitely no substitute for a college education!!!!!!

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney


    Only the Kool-Aid version of the WT is available for download as a pdf. The public version is print or mp3 audio only. Same goes for Awake; no downloadable pdf version.

    The Borg doesn't want "worldly" people accessing their stuff online because they don't want worldly people reading the Kool Aid version without proper prior indoctrination. They haven't blocked their site or made it password protected (yet) but they don't do much (anything) to advertise it.

    So the PR versions of the magazines have to be obtained through a Dub.

  • Titus

    Did anybody mention "Zero th " (0 th ) Letter to the Corinthians????

    The article says there are two reasonable criteria for accepting something as part of canon:

    1) Must have been written in 1 st century

    2) Written by apostle or some of their associates

    0 th Corinthians matches both of those two points.

    1) Written in 1 st century

    2) Written by apostle Paul

    In my letter (0 th Cor) I (Paul) wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators (1 Corinthians 5:9)

    You will also notice that there is no any reference in NWT for this verse.

  • Michelle365

    Hey Mad! I'm confused. Why would they offer the "study articles" online but not what people are out preaching with? Seems to me that makes all versions readily available?

  • NiceDream

    You're welcome.

    Reading that article actually helped me realize how little is based on fact. Most sentences are just their opinions stated as fact with nothing to back it up.

  • maninthemiddle

    I would like your opinion on this. While this (watchtower) article grossly understates the struggle the canon went through, and how as we know it today it came to be. It sounds like in a bare metal description this article is correct. There were a group of followers that held the grouping of scriptures as we know it. Maybe from a purely historical aspect with rose colored glasses this may not be accurate? now there were many, many councils that determined to keep this grouping intact, there were also as many that argued against it. I think part of the intention of the article was to dispel the notion that it was chosen at the council of Nicea.

    This apologist article seems to say the same thing, while showing there was much struggle going on.

    For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament ( 1 Timothy 5:18 ; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7 ). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture ( 2 Peter 3:15-16 ). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches ( Colossians 4:16 ; 1 Thessalonians 5:27 ). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.

    The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in A.D. 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In A.D. 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the New Testament were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (A.D. 393) and the Council of Carthage (A.D. 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

    The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired

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