GOING "GREEN" is either practical or it is not----which is it and why?

by Terry 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • Terry
    Terry

    Going 'Green'

    Opinion Editorial by John Stossel - May 27, 2010

    I ride my bike to work. It seems so pure.

    We're constantly urged to "go green" -- use less energy, shrink our carbon footprint, save the Earth. How? We should drive less, use ethanol, recycle plastic and buy things with the government's Energy Star label.

    But what if much of going green is just bunk? Al Gore's group, Repower America, claims we can replace all our dirty energy with clean, carbon-free renewables. Gore says we can do it within 10 years.

    "It's simply not possible," says Robert Bryce, author of "Power Hungry: The Myths of 'Green' Energy." "Nine out of 10 units of power that we consume are produced by hydrocarbons -- coal, oil and natural gas. Any transition away from those sources is going to be a decades-long, maybe even a century-long process. ... The world consumes 200 million barrels of oil equivalent in hydrocarbons per day. We would have to find the energy equivalent of 23 Saudi Arabias."

    Bryce used to be a left-liberal, but then: "I educated myself about math and physics. I'm a liberal who was mugged by the laws of thermodynamics."

    Bryce mocked the "green" value of my riding my bike to work:

    "Let's assume you saved a gallon of oil in your commute (a generous assumption!). Global daily energy consumption is 9.5 billion gallons of oil equivalent. ... So by biking to work, you save the equivalent of one drop in 10 gasoline tanker trucks. Put another way, it's one pinch of salt in a 100-pound bag of potato chips."

    How about wind power?

    "Wind does not replace oil. This is one of the great fallacies, and it's one that the wind energy business continues to promote," Bryce said.

    The problem is that windmills cannot provide a constant source of electricity. Wind turbines only achieve 10 percent to 20 percent of their maximum capacity because sometimes the wind doesn't blow.

    "That means you have to keep conventional power plants up and running. You have to ramp them up to replace the power that disappears from wind turbines and ramp them down when power reappears."

    Yet the media rave about Denmark, which gets some power from wind. New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman says, "If only we could be as energy smart as Denmark."

    "Friedman doesn't fundamentally understand what he's talking about," Bryce said.

    Bryce's book shows that Denmark uses eight times more coal and 25 times more oil than wind.

    If wind and solar power were practical, entrepreneurs would invest in it. There would be no need for government to take money from taxpayers and give it to people pushing green products.

    Even with subsidies, "renewable" energy today barely makes a dent on our energy needs.

    Bryce points out that energy production from every solar panel and windmill in America is less than the production from one coal mine and much less than natural gas production from Oklahoma alone.

    But what if we build more windmills?

    "One nuclear power plant in Texas covers about 19 square miles, an area slightly smaller than Manhattan. To produce the same amount of power from wind turbines would require an area the size of Rhode Island. This is energy sprawl." To produce the same amount of energy with ethanol, another "green" fuel, it would take 24 Rhode Islands to grow enough corn.

    Maybe the electric car is the next big thing?

    "Electric cars are the next big thing, and they always will be."

    There have been impressive headlines about electric cars from my brilliant colleagues in the media. The Washington Post said, "Prices on electric cars will continue to drop until they're within reach of the average family."

    That was in 1915.

    In 1959, The New York Times said, "Electric is the car of the tomorrow."

    In 1979, The Washington Post said, "GM has an electric car breakthrough in batteries, now makes them commercially practical."

    I'm still waiting.

    "The problem is very simple," Bryce said. "It's not political will. It's simple physics. Gasoline has 80 times the energy density of the best lithium ion batteries. There's no conspiracy here of big oil or big auto. It's a conspiracy of physics."

    John Stossel is host of "Stossel" on the Fox Business Network. He's the author of "Give Me a Break" and of "Myth, Lies, and Downright Stupidity." To find out more about John Stossel, visit his site at johnstossel.com.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Seems to me that going "Green" has become a religion with all the built in prejudices and refusal to consider practical matters.

    Why can't people have a reasoned discussion instead of hurling insults and drawing battle lines?

    Seems to me a winning argument trumps invective.

    What do you think?

  • designs
    designs

    Much of our living with products and machines is about making things more efficient, getting more bang for your buck. Electric motors took a huge leap forward about ten years, new ways to wind motors and they way in which they absorb and store energy in the magnets. We humans are great at improving things, natural tinkerers.

    But start a home garden if you can, that's fun and enjoyable, give the excess to neighbors or take it to a senior community center, some one can always use the tons of Zucchini that comes from a few plants.

  • Terry
    Terry

    We humans are great at improving things, natural tinkerers.

    What a breath of fresh air you are! Thanks.

  • SacrificialLoon
    SacrificialLoon
    "Let's assume you saved a gallon of oil in your commute (a generous assumption!). Global daily energy consumption is 9.5 billion gallons of oil equivalent. ... So by biking to work, you save the equivalent of one drop in 10 gasoline tanker trucks. Put another way, it's one pinch of salt in a 100-pound bag of potato chips."

    "The man who removes a mountain begins by carrying a way small stones" - Chinese proverb

  • hemp lover
    hemp lover

    He may not have to wait too much longer for the electric car. I just saw an ad for the Nissan Leaf - 100% electric, $26,000 after government rebate.

    http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index#/leaf-electric-car/feature/pricing_information

  • changeling
    changeling

    In every debate there are extremists who's cause becomes a "religion". Common sense and a sincere desire to do our part to protect our planet is all we need.

    This is what I do:

    1- I recycle even though there is no curb side pick up in my area. It's a pain to store and sort stuff in my garage and then fill up my trunk and go accross town, but it makes me feel good. I only do plastic, metal and glass. I don't recycle paper and cardboard because it's just too much in my circumstances. I do what I can w/o going nuts.

    2- I make several trips to Goodwill (very near my home) every month to drop off clothes and household items I once would have thrown out.

    3- I keep tote bags in my car for grocery shopping and a folded bag in my purse for other types of shopping.

    4- I try not to purchase anything I don't really need or I'm not absolutely in love with.

    There is a lot more I could do, but it could easily take over my life and that would negate any benefits of what I do.

  • restrangled
    restrangled

    I try really hard, and sometimes I wonder how much of a difference it makes, I do feel it's practical to a point.

    All light bulbs are the mini florescents....I hate them. The light is ugly. Except in the kitchen I have halogens because I have to see what I'm doing!

    I recycle everything and do have pick up so its pretty easy to do. Our regular garbage for 3 people is down to about 3 kitchen sized bags a week.

    I buy all "green" paper products like paper towls and toilet paper. I use a steamer to clean to keep down the use of most household chems.

    I try not to make trips in the car without having a passenger running the same errands.

    We are on a septic system.

    All lights are off during the day, and I even had a switch on my hotwater heater installed. After everyone showers I just shut it off for the day. This really works. The water is hot enough to last the rest of the day and I flip it on in the early morning. Hot water is ready in 20 minutes. I wash clothes in cold water, and a lower dryer temp.

    I run my pool pump at night and keep the temp at 78 for air conditioning.

    I am about at my "practical" limit. I hope it is making a difference!

    edited to add: I also use Freecycle.org in my area to get rid of any large and misc. items that might wind up in the trash. Its amazing how well this works! From old metal pipes, to appliances, furniture, clothing, blankets. etc.

    r.

  • darthfader
    darthfader

    Small things add up provided that they are truly imporvements in efficiency. In most cases if there is some sort of cost reduction over time (like replacing an incandescent bulb with a CFC) then it's a "good thing". In some other cases, the savings and "greenness" of an idea is not so clear. Take solar panels, for instance, there is a pretty big environmental impact in the fabrication of silicon solar cells - that may not be offset by the "free electricity" they generate over their lifetime. For me, the jury is still out - I dont think we have clear answers to the effectiveness of a green lifestyle choice. There are some technologies that I find quite interesting and promising - take Solar Dish Sterling for example. These are actually mirrored dishes with a Stirling "heat difference engine" - this technilogy has been around for many decades and is now coming into it's own: Salt River Project Solar Dish Project

  • designs
    designs

    Terry,

    An early epiphany was when my parents took us to the Mesa Verde Cliff Dwellings in southern Colorado and Canyon de Chile in Arizona. I was around 7. Here were these peoples who had it pretty well figured out. Sun in the winter on their homes, shade in the summer, water and crops in the valley below, grazing land above, you could only get in single file down the cliffs (at that time you could go into the Cliff houses).

    Now we are making 'Ecohomes' incorprating some of the same orientation and azimuth techniques improving on ideas again and again, its what we do best.. An architect who has an Office above mine came down this morning and were talking, he is helping a friend build a straw bale house in the mountains east of us. Gotta help out on that one.

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