X-JW FEMALE CIVILITY=X-JW FEMALE SUBJECTION?
Mamma is so proud!
I just got to this thread...I had to deal with the witnesses at my door!
I brought up the "women in subjection" issue to the two women who came to my door this morning. They gave me JW babble. I zoned out. I was also civil. As I noted in my thread, I wanted to scream at them. Then I realized that would not accomplish much. I decided to bite my lip.
I do not feel that I fell down. I knew it was a losing battle with two JW women.
This is one of the sorest points for me. My mother on one hand will let an elder ride rough shod over her and on the other hand, if it is anyone else, she is a fire ball. I got conflicting signals growing up.
Anyway, I do not believe being civil equates to being in subjection.
Great thread! I too appreciate the way you presented this in a very non confrontational conversational manner! By addressing ideas and not personalities we are able do address the issues. lol hey you may have just set a new standard for posting
As a person who has swung to both sides of the pendelum,so to speak, I personally have found I receive a better response (or at least I just feel better myself) when I try reasoning with someone and if they don't respond then just walking away. This didn't make me feel like I was submissive or beaten down, honestly it leaves me feeling a lot better about myself and usually the other person too, because we didn't walk away from the foray both battered and brused from the verbal slams. Being civil isn't a sign of weakness as some think..
it is a sign of strength.
I also don't think that someone saying "thank you" or showing appreciation for a post or a thread that meant something to THEM should be labeled as "gushing at the feet" of anyone. We all have different issues that mean more to us....we also if we are honest most likely have different posters we may enjoy reading more for our own personal reasons.
Xena who would burn her bra if she was wearing one
Xena who would burn her bra if she was wearing one
Oh, as if we thought you did in the first place..
Old woman waiting.
ps: this post contains an attempt at humor.
ROTFL......you got me waiting
Excellent delivery of your message! What good is it to talk when nobody is going to listen to you because you are loud and obnoxious? Isn't it better to talk in a way that will attract people to you? Politicians, for example, might be very passionate about an issue but if they went around yelling about it they may never get a chance to do anything about it.
My husband was never an elder. He was appointed to MS in a large part - almost 100% - thanks to me writing talks for him, training the kids, vacation pioneering -- and more things done to make him look good. I never thought it would go to his head because I always believed he KNEW that he owed it to me. And he's not a cheuvanist either. But the JW mentality was ingrained into his head all his life. He suffered a lot because his stupid JW mom went so far as to divorce his dad because an elder called her and told her it would stumble the congregation if she took her "worldly" husband back.
So now here we are ... both of us out of the borg. Does he still act like a dub? Not usually. But occasionally he says things that sound "elderish." Yeah, I sometimes want to fly off the handle when I hear things like that. It takes me right back to when a "mere" male publisher told me to "find my theocratic place in the organization and stay there." And I HAVE BLOWN UP IN HIS FACE because of that.
But in the long run, I expect him to talk things out with me in a civil manner. So I must do it too. Just because I believe that he has to respect me doesn't mean that I DON'T have to respect him too. It's been hard for me to explain things to him since so much of what is ingrained in his head is from many years of JW lifestyle. It's not just indoctrination. It's actual life experience. A lot of what Amnesian said helped me sort into words what I wanted to say.
I love people who "tell it like it is" but I detest people who are rude and obnoxious about it. I'm a tell it like it is type of girl. Always have been and sometimes got into trouble because of it. But when I think about it now, I think it was more my MANNER of telling it like it is and not my actually doing it. You can tell it like it is, be direct and also be polite about it - both men and women alike. I don't like loud and obnoxious men either. There is a distinction between SOUNDING rational and getting your point across and SOUNDING loud, obnoxious and unintelligent and causing the listeners to just not listen.
Good points bluesapphire,
Contrary to popular belief, being a straight shooter doesn't = being rude.
My esteem for someone of either gender goes down tremendously when they do this. They only THINK they are getting their way. Better results come when you are polite!
I particularly dislike people who have no patience.
It's funny though when you do the same to them! Watch them jump! he he he
What goes around comes around cellomould
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
I know I'm a bit late with this, but I've never thought of tact, good manners, intelligence or good judgement as being gender-specific. Some things are worth fighting for; some battles are just unnecessary and stupid.
The "good judgement" part comes in when you take the time and mental effort required to know the difference between a worthy cause and one that is simply not. Intelligence lies in taking this knowledge and acting on it accordingly, even when this means biting your tongue and/or walking away. I know this isn't nearly as easy as simply REacting without thinking things through (and we're all guilty of this sometimes), but it tends to reflect very well on the character of the people who do it.
"I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper death -- if you aren't as big a bunch of dunderheads as I usually have to teach."
-- Professor Severus Snape, Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone.