Liars for the Watchtower?

by JosephAlward 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • Shimmer

    I have been following the discussions between Joseph and Lionel and I have to say that when I try to read Joseph's reasoning my eyes start to glaze over because it's just word play. However Lionel has made his point repeatedly in my opinion.

    To me it doesn't matter what the wts' reasoning is it's not in line with their teachings. If I were to join the Peace Corp. because I wanted to do humanitarian work, I guarantee you I would be df'd or at the least publicly reproved. It wouldn't matter what good motives I had, the org. would look at that as being a political move.

    Just my .02


    No pessimist ever discovered the secrets of the stars, or sailed to an uncharted land, or opened a new heaven to the human spirit.
    -------Helen Keller

  • Lionel_P_Hartley

    Alward stated:

    If there had been an attempt by the Watchtower to lie its way through this whole thing--if, indeed, it had done anything wrong--then wouldn’t we expect the various branches to be singing exactly the same tune, lest Watchtower destroyers would suspect that the differences were contradictions?
    The WTS was initially caught off balance by this whole affair. Gillies, according to Stephen Bates was unaware of the link to the UN at first. However, once they had cobbled together some kind of story they issued the following statement;

    This circular letter replaces any replies we have given earlier and is sent to all branches.
    This link carries the entire statement:

    Thus, the WTS did what Alward suggested would constitute evidence of lying - now the branches are all singing the same tune - and that tune is "library card for research" not "affiliation so that the UNO can assist with our humanitarian mission" (Here I am paraphrasing and am not intending to suggest that the words in quotes were actually written down by the WTS).

    Note too that the latest directive to branches "replaced all previous replies." Thus, the Portuguese branch, and all other branches, were being instructed not to deviate from the official explanation. It is hardly likely that the WTS would choose its words carelessly in such a directive.


  • CornerStone

    Hello All,

    I think what Hartley and Shimmer has said brings the orgs misleading letters right back to the important part, namely, HYPOCRISY!!!

    The Borg Masters have take it upon themselves to put a 'hand' or a 'foot' in Satans' bed by WILLINGLY associating with THEIR wild beast, the United Nations. They then tell everyone that their actions were BENEVOLENT, or following their line of thinking, God inspired/directed. All this KNOWING they would DF any R&F who decided to do the same.

    HYPOCRISY is the real issue here! Their LYING CONTEMPT for TRUTH and the FAITH of the R&F is evedent for all the world to see.

    But I think the Borg Masters are hoping the world will not care to see. Still, like the old saying goes; Give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself.


  • Lionel_P_Hartley

    A much expanded - and highly revealing - explanation by the Portuguese branch is found here

    Just click on "also in Portuguese but different!" on the left hand side.

  • hawkaw


    Interesting, Joe doesn't give the dates of the letter.


  • RipVanWinkle

    I am inclined to believe that Joseph Alword is putting up smoke and mirrors on his web page and is ACTUALLY a lawyer in the legal department of the Society and is trying to "tone" down the storm.


  • Satanus


    Check the date that joe signed onto this board. Compare that date to the date of the eruption of the un/wt scandal.


  • RipVanWinkle


    I thought the same thing 10/4.

    I read the posts under 'scandal' and he would not give an inch when there was proven refutation to the contrary.

    He is much too passionate and shrewd in his arguments to be a disinterested person. He acknowledges all the things that have been hurtful - but those things are disproportionate to the immensity of the UN/WT situation. I think it's called 'theocratic strategy. (sp?)

    I would just be happy if I would have seen straightforward answers in the past to a lot of things. I can understand errors, but admission and apology makes a difference. The 4 most important words are: 'I made a mistake.' The 2 most important words are: 'I'm sorry'

    We had been taught to 'out' even small indiscretions and they used them over our heads. I hate to say it, but I fear a double standard here. At least the circumstantial evidence points that way.


  • Lionel_P_Hartley

    Joseph has complained about me citing his academic credentials - and being amazed at, well, you know what ... but let me come to his defense;

    here he is

    He's not a troll, IMHO, and he's not stupid either, He's just arrogant - that we can forgive - for the WTS would not want a defender like Joe hanging around their necks! Look at it this way, would you want him on your side?


    ps: added - I was not being sarcastic - all I meant was, would the WTS want someone on their side who went to such extremes to defend them? It is almost embarassing that such extreme arguments are needed. I think that Joe is legit but just a bit pedantic.

  • LoneWolf

    Most of this I addressed to another individual on another thread, but as it applies just as much in this matter, I'd thought I'd repeat most of it here.

    Alward's words sound all well and good on the surface. Such a scenario is plausible.

    Unfortunitely, there is one thing that blows it completely out of the water. There is some fairly strict criteria for becoming an associated N.G.O. Among others things, it is necessary and has been necessary from square one, to support the U.N. by publicizing its goals and purposes in a positive manner.

    For a period of nearly 10 years, the W.T.B.T.S. has done just that. The articles in the Awake! magazine are there for all to see, and remove all doubt as to whether the Society's leaders knew what was going on or not. The final nail in that coffin is the extremely deceptive wording in the final paragraphs of some of those articles.

    They are obviously calculated to deceive the U.N. officials into believing that the Society is favorable to their cause, while at the same time doing all they can to preserve their real stance in the eyes of the rank and file. That to me is a case of fraud, pure and simple.

    Let me mention one other thing. One of the oldest tricks in the book for those that are caught red-handed in mischief is to try to ignore the main guilt and concentrate on one small sidelight that they can defend better. Should that defense be successful, then they apply the exoneration to the whole thing, without exception. In other words, if one small part is correct, then it is all correct.

    Therefore, quibbling over these smaller items is unnecessary. They led the beast to believe that they were backing them, and for all public purposes, they did. Big time. There are nearly ten years worth of Awake! magazines that are available where anyone can see it with their own eyes. That is the real issue, and we should not allow them to sidetrack that point onto something that can be debated.


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