To help my cousin..maybe if you used to be an elder..

by hereiam! 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • hereiam!
    hereiam!

    I have a cousin who has been away from the meetings 5 years. She was baptized only a year before becoming "inactive" and moved to another state. Then after some time she moved back to the area all the family is from, but wouldn't say a word of ANYTHING having to do with the religion. She has had a boyfriend now for sometime and they became engaged early this year. So, she decided to move in with her mom (also a witnes) to save money for her wedding and her mom agreed she and her fiance "wordly") could stay and live with them if they slept on seperate floors of the house. They did, and this arrangement lasted just under a month before they got married.

    Now, my mother ( witness in the worst way..) who lived nearby started all this crap about how she should be punished for marrying this guy since she's still a baptized witness and has been "hiding" her life and he is worldly. All the elders did was to tell my family to be careful and not attend the wedding if they don't want to loose their privilages, basically never took action with her. (Mind you, the elders NEVER took the time to encourage her or give a sheperding call all this time she was living in their territory.) They always just ignored her. She does not have records in that hall and has never. So all of a sudden she tells me the other day, she recieved a letter from two elders. No warning. Just telling her they were "intructed" (by who???) to meet with her for the reproach she has brought on the nam of Jehovah and his congregation (what exactly?? who knows). Very vague and yet a threat basically to scare her from being df'd. She's NOT scared at all and told them she doesn't even know them, and has no desire to go back to the kingdom hall. They won't let it go.

    So we talked and after getting the details I looked up some information to protect her. See, all the family is playing the "you have to think of the family if you get df'd" card and she really does want to avoid a mess if possible. Like play their game, but get them off her back to please the whole mix of people involved. This is her desire and I want to help her if at all possible to protect her rights as a publisher, and get them off her back. I looked up some info on the wt library and get info to see if how they are handling the matter is wrong and can be dropped.

    This is what I think can help, but I'd like if possible to get an opinion of anyone that was a previous elder or i experiancd in dancing around judicial commitees. :)

    1. The only person making the accusation, was my mom. The elders never encouraged her to face my cousin and apply Matt.18:15-17. Now my mom lives out of state and I'm sure has no desire to contact her.

    2.The sheperding call never took place. Arn't the elders supposed to admonish the brother to change at least a few times before turning it into a commitee??

    3.No one outside my mom is willing to give details about my cousin's worldly life as a witness to a sin so is there even a reason to believe this will go anywhere??

    4.My cousin is no part of this congregation and also never identifies herself as a witness, so how is she a "threat" to the congregation??

    I want to know is there some concrete step she can take to dismiss this letter thing or at least prolong the process till they just get sick of her? She has after 5 years never had a problem and I know many inactive ones are able to disappear without too much trouble. Is there some specail tricks she can play along here to get them off her back? Sorry if this is long. I've been in a judicial comitte before an if I knew now what I knew then, I would have handled it soooo differently. The elders don't deserve anything and meeting with them is such a joke. Well any suggestions would be AWESOME! Thanks experianced players! lol

  • nugget
    nugget

    I know in recent years the organisation has really clamped down on marrying outside the cult, this is the only reproach and generally would be the subject of a marking talk about loyalty.

    If they are sleeping separately then they cannot be done for immorality and are following a higher standard in their courtship than many couples including some in the organisation. So the only thing they can get her for is marrying outside the org. I don't know if this is a Df'ing offence.

    She needs to establish what she wants. As an adult she isn't answerable to these men and doesn't have to meet with them unless she feels it would be of some benefit.

    I'm sending this BTTT in case any elders and ex elders can help with the actual rules.

  • wasastar
    wasastar

    I think it is a fishing expedition. If they can get her to meet with them they will try to find out what she has been doing while inactive. They no doubt believe that her relationship is immoral with or without proof. I think they will try get her to reveal some detail they suspect or implicate herself in some way. If she feels she must reply, she might ask them what exactly they wan't to meet with her about, what evidence they have of any wrongdoing, and what witnesses there are to it. It is not a judical matter to marry out of truth. However as nugget mentioned she could be marked for failing to follow counsel. Whether this was given directly to her or through the magazines. I say if they wan't to meet with her about her relationship she should simply tell them it is not open for discussion and end the conversation.

    wishing her the best, wasastar

  • yknot
    yknot

    Fishing.....

    Mom has been bothering the Elders like a woman wielding a baseball bat at a bee hive......

    I don't see how they can act if they don't have her publishing card.......

    I suppose she could talk to them with her husband and maintain just how stumbling all this hijinx has caused, the worldly hubby saying he is utterly disgusted and dismayed at the lack of Christian love.......

    Have yall reviewed the 'Elder Manual'?

    http://www.4shared.com/document/t-bQN-oP/1991-Pay-Attention-Elders-Manu.html

  • hereiam!
    hereiam!

    Cool thanks. Yeah she has absolutly no contact or association with the congregation and its not even her hall!! She could care less if she was "marked" she only wants to avoid being df'd since contact with her family is the objective. So since marrying an outsider is the only proof of any "wrongdoing" maybe she's fine..

    That would be awesome to to know the actual rules. Thank you!!

  • yknot
    yknot

    Flock Book..... pg 132, 133 says:

    Marrying an unbeliaver is contrary to Bible principles.
    (Deut. 7:3,4; 1 Cor. 7:39; 2 Cor. 6:14, 15)

    If a dedicated baptized Christian marries an unbeliever this would result in disqualification from all special privileges for the time being. (1 Tim 3:2,4,5,12,12; w82 3/15 p.31)

    If the parent is an elder, a ministerial servant, or a pioneer and encourages, allows or gives tacit approval of the marriage, this raises question regarding his or her qualifications.

    The notation aside the last two sentences adds that this does not apply to an unbabptized publisher.
    The word tacit implies examples of paying for the wedding or reception, being in the ceremony or signing for an under age child to marry.

    _________________

    A condsideration however is discerned because your cousin wasn't publically identifying herself as a JW.

    Please see pages 99-100

  • hereiam!
    hereiam!

    Thank Ynot!! I just downloaded the elders manual file and I'm gunna check it out right now. I didn't even know these things were available to the public!!! lol, looks like there's alot I don't know. ;)

    Thank you!!

  • yknot
    yknot

    Oh this book is not 'available'........ but bootlegged ( kisses to the Brother who uploaded it originally!)

    So best for her and you not to mention reading it! (serious, knowledge of the ks91 is a dead 'tell' of apostasy)

    BTW..... a new updated version is being shipped at the end of this year!

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Reading between the lines , I think the elders did not want to take any notice her, just treat hear as being so far lapsed that it did not matter. But then Mother's complaint arrived...Perhaps other elders disagreed withe idea and then they had to take some action (I recall a case like that)

    She can be d/f'd for admitted or proven 'fornication' or d/a'd for saying that is no longer a Witness.

    Question : Has she admitted fornication? .....Is she willing to deny it? ....Have they ever slept in the house together but separate rooms when her Mum is absent?

    Otherwise I see no grounds to d/f...but they will now want to be satisfied ....

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    As was brought out, the marrying a non-JW (I can't bear to type "outside the truth") is not a judicial matter. The fact that the letter was from 2 elders and not 3 means this is an investigative committee not a judicial one. It sounds like Mom is pushing and now the BOE feels like they at least need to attempt to determine if some JW rule has been violated. Unless they have 2 witnesses to some alleged wrongdoing, they can't move forward. Of course, if she "bites" and confesses to something, then they could go after her judicially if they so choose. The rules say they don't HAVE to but they can. BTW - if they already had 2 witnesses, they likely would have just invited her to a JC. It sounds like they don't have enough to proceed.

    I have a feeling that the BOE would like nothing better than to have this person just ignore them so they can say they tried. They don't even know her? I can tell you that those elders likely don't want to met with her anymore than she wants to met with them. She should tell them she knows where the KH is and how to find them if she ever decides to become active again. Then, she should enjoy her life with her new husband!

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