Tomorrow is D-day (page 2)

gumby

In all fairness.....it wouldn't be fair to danni if the elders recorded her so why record them? It would be nice but also deceitful and wouldn't go well especially if were they to find out.
Her boyfriend will hear firsthand what they say to back danni up.

borgfree

Gumby,

I wouldn't be too concerned about being unfair to JWs. I think we all have many stories of unfairness practiced by JWs such as three elders against one publisher in a commitee meeting, elders stick together on their story so the poor publisher has "two or more witnesses" against them.

Also, before I left the WT, I had reason to call the service dept. at Brooklyn a few times. As I talked to the "anonymous" bethelite I could hear a regular "beep" I asked someone from bethel, that I knew, about it, and was told that they record every conversation coming in on the telephone. The person on the telephone did not find it necessary to inform me of my being recorded.

I understand that the "beep" is enough to satisify the legality of the recording but still, doesn't it seem a little deceptive? Not everyone knows the law on recording.

Borgfree

"Without knowledge there can be no genuine faith--only superstition on the one hand or speculation on the other" Robert Banks

sadiejive

Danni,

Good luck finding the answers that you seek. But I assure you, except in EXTREMELY rare cases, they will skirt around the harder questions. Not to be nosy (well maybe a little bit), but.. what were some of the questions you're gonna ask them?

Good luck to you!!
Sadie

Mulan

Danni, I will be shocked beyond belief if they allow your friend to be there.

Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
"No one can take advantage of you, without your permission." Ann Landers

SixofNine

why wouldn't they let her friend be there?

Had Enough

Danni:

I've been following your posts about your up-coming meeting with a congregation. On your previous thread, you discussed that you are concerned that children are aware of the options open to them to get help in the cases of abuse or molestation.

I don't think the following has been discussed too much with you so I just wanted to bring it to your attention.

Elders here at this site, have enlightened us, that in the 1994 Elder School, it was stressed that "if it is one person’s word against another and not two witnesses to the wrong, no action would be taken and no authorities would be notified. The victim? Cautioned to keep silent or face discipline within the congregation that could go as far as being disfellowshipped for slander."

This policy was again stated to the public in The Watchtower 1995, November 1st, pages 28-29 in the Article, ”Comfort for Those With a Stricken Spirit”, under the heading, “What Can Elders Do?” it plainly states:

“If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial way. And the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person. The Bible says that there must be two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken. (2Cor.13:1; 1 Tim. 5:19) Even if more than one person “remembers” abuse by the individual, the nature of these recalls is just too uncertain to base judicial decisions on them without other supporting evidence. This does not mean that such “memories” are viewed as false (or that they are viewed as true). But Bible principles must be followed in establishing a matter judicially.”

Herein lies a large part of the problem in bringing justice to an accused molester. No investigation will take place if he denies it and there were not two witnesses to the act.

Another problem comes from what Yo YoMama stated in your post 2 days ago. He/she said:

Jehovah's Witnesses follow the law of the land. We have to admit that each individual state has different laws. But the Witnesses will follow what the law says. So the problem is in some individual congregations.

So as stated, the Legal Department, if contacted by the elders, will advise the elders according to what that particular state's laws require in molestation accusations. If no action, or limited action is required by law, then the elders will not be required to report it for investigation.

As well, I have read of a case just a few months ago, where a JW sheriff went against the local elders, and, according to his duty (and no doubt his conscience too) reported a molestation accusation that he was informed of. When the case went to trial, the sheriff was disfellowshipped by his elders(kicked out of the congregation and shunned) and another case where a lawyer was informed of an abuse accusation, disobeyed the elders and reported it. He too was disfellowshipped.

These are only a few examples but indicate a certain mindset in the organization to "protect god's name from reproach at all costs".
Needless to say, that upon learning of these points and much, much more thanks to many "informed ones" who have shared their knowledge with us, I can no longer support this organization. This is only the "tip of the iceberg" of the wrongs I have come to learn about and it was a bitter pill to swallow after having spent my whole life in this organization.

I hope you can feel satisfied after your encounter tomorrow. As you have been warned by others in this thread, you may very likely see the slickest dance ever performed in skirting issues and filling you with "doublespeak" as we call it. I too would love to be another fly on the wall tomorrow.

Had Enough

"Never doubt that a small group of citizens can change the world.
Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."...Margaret Mead

Reborn2002

Your efforts and intentions are admirable.. although I have to concur with Pathofthorns.. the number one priority of any and all in positions of "perceived authority" or PR is to preserve the reputation of the Org.

I doubt youll get far.

The true Kingdom of God is located in your heart, not an organization of hypocrites.

www.geocities.com/latinloverchicago/Jason1.html for my new webpage and info!! Im trying to live now!!

ISP

Best wishes, danni. Be sure to let us know what happens.

ISP

OUTLAW

Hey Danni,Have fun tommorow.Remember the things you`ve seen on this board.You may not be recording them,but they may be recording you.Don`t let them sidestep your questions.Many times they will give you a reply but not an answer.Talk to you later ...OUTLAW

Tomorrow is D-day

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