Undeserved Kindness vs Grace - Watchtower flaw in a NUTSHELL (page 3)

What a great post! This subject cannot be covered too often. Sab is right. Dubs are in a constant state of stress. Why?! Nothing is ever good enough for the Organization. Give more time! Give more money! Give your life! What have you done for us lately! Publicly they will say that your best is good enough, but that is not the case. Organizational standards must be met, you must tow the company line.

I once likened the WTBTS's " underserved kindness " to giving your wife a gift. As you hand it to her, explain that she does not deserve it. Still you are giving it to her anyway because you love her. Make sure that you continually remind her every week that she did not deserve it. That, my friends, is an abusive relationship.

Being a born-in I still struggle with guilt. I still struggle with understanding grace. Grace carries a totally different meaning than " undeserved kindness ", it is a gift. When you think " underserved kindness " you feel guilty because that though is a negative disguised as a positive. When you are burdened with guilt you will often fall prey to self-fulfilling prophecies. You feel worthless, then you behave in a manner that creates more guilt because you feel that you are hopeless anyway. Then you run to the Elders to confess your sins. It is a vicious cycle that can destroy your self-worth.

When you start to understand what grace really means, you will slowly start to change. Paul understood. He wished that Christ could be fully formed in everyone.

Peace,

DD

Julia Orwell

I never discovered grace either till I bought and started to read the King James bible. It wasn't until then, after 14 years a Jw, did I actually 'get' Christianity, and understand Jesus' message. Undeserved kindness really does remind you what a slug you are and that Jehovah only tolerates you, but grace is love in,action.

Julia Orwell

I never discovered grace either till I bought and started to read the King James bible. It wasn't until then, after 14 years a Jw, did I actually 'get' Christianity, and understand Jesus' message. Undeserved kindness really does remind you what a slug you are and that Jehovah only tolerates you, but grace is love in,action.

Crazyguy

Nice original post

Slidin Fast

Bumped. Whilst sitting in today's WT. More guilt inducing dogma.

fulltimestudent

charis, sometimes translated grace in the KJV, but also translated with the English words -

"favour (6x), thanks (4x), thank (4x), thank (with G2192) (3x), pleasure (2x),
miscellaneous words (7x).-

Is a word with complex meanings in its ancient usage.

The Blue Letter Bible web-site suggests that in the Greek Bible usage, it was used with these translated meanings:

grace
that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
good will, loving-kindness, favour
of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues
what is due to grace
the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace
the token or proof of grace, benefit
a gift of grace
benefit, bounty
thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward
and Strongs Bible Dictionary suggests these English words may add meaning.
χάρις cháris, khar'-ece; from G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):—acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy).

Link: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5485&t=KJV

In Greek religious thought there were the three Charites, the goddesses who presided over the domain of 'charis'

And to gain a better understanding of how the ancient word was used, you could do worse than finding a copy of James Davidson's (Reader in Ancient History at Warwick University), "The Greeks and Greek Love" and reading his Ch 2. Grace, Sex and Favours, which will lead you down a totally unexpected path.

Bible writers using greek to write, must have been aware of the popular usage.

I think that neither the WTS, nor more orthodox Christian religious thought, cover the implicit possibities in the usage of the word in the NT

fulltimestudent

Leading on from yesterday's post, here's a question to consider.

Did early Christians understand 'grace' the same way as some modern Christians? Or, did the concept develop slowly over centuries?

I looked for some sort of study that may help answer that question, and found that Donald Fairbairn has attempted an examination of the topic in his 'Grace and Christology in the Early Church.' Fairbairn is a scholar specializing in patristic soteriology and Cyril of Alexandria who currently teaches at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. (want to know more- see his bio in wikipedia, - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Fairbairn )

Google has at least parts of the book on the web*.

I believe that after reading his review ( pages 1 to 20)of what we know (that is, that part of church history which has extant records) that these ideas and doctrines did not come fully developed from the ministry of Jesus, or even the Apostles.

* ttps://books.google.com.au/books? hl=en&lr=&id=W6cUDAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PR11&dq=the+understanding+of+%27grace%27+in+the+early+church&ots=p_RrwAsuUL&sig=n9OrtnbVuMD1sUjpvTtGmpMY2MM#v=onepage&q=the%20understanding%20of%20'grace'%20in%20the%20early%20church&f=false

ttdtt

It's always about FEAR - OBLIGATION - GUILT.

No love in the mix unless it's love for the GB.

Undeserved Kindness vs Grace - Watchtower flaw in a NUTSHELL

Fernando

DATA-DOG

Julia Orwell

Julia Orwell

Crazyguy

Slidin Fast

fulltimestudent

fulltimestudent

ttdtt

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