by lepermessiah 61 Replies latest jw friends
I'm not so sure there was just one important voter pre-1970s, good4nothingB. I think Fred Franz pretty much had his way as far as doctrine and prophecy was concerned. Knorr was the businessman.
If your point about Ray Franz lying at an assembly/convention is that such things are on purpose and commonplace among GB members and other speakers, then I would agree that you're probably right.
I agree,in the last few years with all the talk,GB/FDS this and that.Also all the prayers to them,shame on those who say those prayers.I would never say amen.Oh,well let the R&F worship men,idols,etc.
Bob
I read your posts and you have some good ideas - but I think that more analysis of this issue is needed.
The central question is WHY? Why are they repeating this 'obey, obey and almost worship us' garbage?
If you want to understand the GB and the Society, know this: they are deeply reactionary. If Witness kids are fornicating, they nag about that. If Witness parents are getting divorced, they rant on about that, and so on.
This reactionary nature was manifest especially when the 'voluntary donation' arrangement exploded in their faces. The result was a burst of KM and magazine articles and assembly parts about giving money. Of course, in spite of all the "reminders", they failed. Witnesses are still closing their wallets.
So, the question is, if they are boring everyone with repeating this 'we are the Grand Anointed Masters of Time and Space' crap, what is happening? I don't think it's the usual sex and drifting away stuff. They must be aware of something more pointed that, they feel, threatens them.
I don't think a few more partakers is a threat or even doctrinal issues that most Witlesses don't understand, anyway. I think that this emphasis must be linked with the 'generation' stuff in some way. I don't understand WHY they brought up this 'generation' idiocy! Why even talk about it? How does an interpretation of 'a bunch of guys who knew a bunch of guys' give the organization any sense of immediacy?
There is an aspect to the 'generation' issue that no one talks about: What Happens When the Old Men Die. Red China was utterly fanatical until the elderly veterans of the Long March died off and a younger, technocratic generation took over that had no hard beliefs in anything.
This also happened in Russia when the elderly Bolsheviks died and left Communism without a living history. The whole country went back to the Orthodox Church, nationalism and a "czar" like Putin.
Maybe the recent "apostacy' in the British Branch hit them hard also.
I do wonder if these Watchtowers are almost the equivalent of a collective soliloquy (sort of like Shakespeare) by the Writing Staff and the Governing Body, as if they are reasoning out loud, trying to convince themselves of their supposed authority. This is not unknown as Witlesses frequently say 'the End is Near' as if to reassure themselves.
The Worldwide Church of God collapsed because no one could make any sense of the "theology" Armstrong left behind. I wonder if the Governing Body is having trouble sorting their own faith in who they ( supposedly) are.
The primary problem with the 'faithful and discreet slave' doctrine is that it has been a practical fiction for about half a century or so. It simply doesn't exist in any meaningful way. These guys are dead and no one cares what any partaker has to say, outside of Bethel - and even within, if they don't have position and power.
Add on the general rot of this organization and it may be wearing on them. Some of them may be waking up in the morning and facing the draining task of maintaining a fantasy for the rest of their lives. Many brothers in this cult may be enduring the same horror that we have experienced, of being stuck in the organization and faking faith in it, with no end in sight.
metatron
I hope they keep clamping down on control. To me this 'worship of the governing body' was one of the biggest areas of dissonance I had, and I imagine many others must feel this way. Deep down it felt so wrong that every talk, article, and prayer would mention the GB, more than god or Jesus!
This tactic may have worked in the past, but I think there's a huge risk that this will backfire, adding major dissonance, causing people to think and ultimately wake up.
bobld -- what do you mean "prayers to them" prayers to the GB? Were/are the GB telling people to pray to them?
.Also all the prayers to them,shame on those who say those prayers.I would never say amen.Oh,well let the R&F worship men,idols,etc.
What apostasy in the British Bethel? Can anyone enlarge on this please?
Loz x
Good thread..
What Happens When the Old Men Die.
Jaracz & Barr are the only ones left from the Knorr / Franz era. Everyone else was appointed to the GB in the 90's or later.
I'm pretty sure Barr is pretty marginalized by now - he's getting close to 100 years old and even if his mind is still somewhat sharp, he surely doesn't have much energy for anything.
Jaracz had a stroke a few years back but now seems to be mostly if not entirely recovered. He has been the de facto leader for well over a decade, but he's in his mid-80's now and can't have many more lucid years left.
Are all these articles on the virtual infallibility of the GB setting up the sheep for some huge huge "hard to swallow" changes that the death of the last 2 feeble "old guard" members will usher in?
I wonder if there is a faction or subset of the GB that meets privately and has a laundry list of changes they plan to push through as soon as it is politically possible?
OK - just a little chronological moment on "Governing Body" -
Am I correct that the Elder, Body of Elders, and Governing Body got started about 1972? (prior to this was the "servant" arrangement)
What year did Knorr die - and Franz pretty much take over? Wasn't the Governing Body intended as a check and balance over Franz?
When did the "rotation of elders" and the notion that the Circuit Overseer was "just another elder" get eliminated? I would have said late 70s - after this, the local elders really reverted back to the pre-1970 days of "congregation servant" and permanent positions; and the Circuit Overseers pretty much regained their absolute power.
To me, the whole Governing Body thing in Brooklyn was a political power play designed to diminish the power of the WTBTS president. The 2/3 rule was a counterplay to leave in place an inner circle with veto power over progressive ideas.
Anybody else remember this roughly the way I do?
I think you're about right, JWoods. Metatron, you make excellent points, too.
Part of the answer to why they're doing this is because appeal to authority is just about all they have in the case of many doctrines. Too many people know too much to buy into an old fashioned Freddy-style book of prophecy anymore. Rather than explain things in detail, with the circular and fallacious logic that that entails, they simply assert their authority in the hope the true believers will not ask too many questions and just keep following.
Think about how the rank and file raved about the wonderful spiritual food in the Daniel and Isaiah books and then think about just how little they actually remember from them. They only remember the talking points emphasized by the borg. No one cares about the details and remains in the organization. WE HERE know FAR MORE than the average Dub about HIS OWN religion. Think about that. It's because we DO care about the details and DON'T submit to the phantom authority of the Borg.
Are they reactionary? Sure are. And they're reacting to people like us.
