by TTWSYF 13 Replies latest jw friends
Hello - My bro [and many others] often speak of how the true teachings of Jesus and the apostles were corrupted and as one poster recently wrote 'since then, the Catholic church has been forcing the trinity down our throat'. Is there any evidence to support the great apostasy? Is there any evidence to support such claims?
dc
Is there any evidence to support such claims?
Yes. Look at what Jesus and the apostles taught in the Bible, and then look at what the Catholics and Protestants teach.
Just so you know, the response above was oversimplified & not particularly accurate. There was no great apostacy, but rather, the beliefs of christianity evolved, developed & changed over time, like all long-lasting religions. There was never a single set of 'gospel' teachings that christians followed, which would later become corrupted. Indeed, christianty existed in it's earliest form before the gospels were even written. Back then, there were multiple 'christian' cults who believed lots of different things, & if anything, the institution of the Roman Catholic Church was the first sincere attempt at unity within christianity. But, since there were so many opposing ideas floating around, they couldn't all be selected for inclusion in the biblical cannon, & in the end the majority of books that were considered were not included. Since then, the beliefs have continued to change, schisms have occured (the watchtower being one of the more recent ones) & christianity has reverted to the mess it began as. But all christian sects which have ever existed would argue that all of their beliefs are based on inspired writings from the horse's mouth up in the sky.
One major problem with the belief of Christiandom having a great apostasy is this. The bible cannon [the bible in your Kingdom hall] was accepted through [3] various counsels starting around 187ad, 387ad and 392ad [sorry, these dates may be a decade off or so]. If the apostasy was well under way by the time the apostles died, then why would you have any faith in scripture at all? It just doesn't make any sense, does it?
dc
How can you apostasize (apostatize?) from a "religion" that was never really a "religion" to begin with?
How can you apostasize (apostatize?) from a "religion" that was never really a "religion" to begin with?
What do you mean?
I was wondering the same thing.
How can you apostasize (apostatize?) from a "religion" that was never really a "religion" to begin with?
Often, when my brother [he's JW, I'm a Catholic,] doesn't like a comment or question, he will say or ask something rather indecipherable that has you just scratching your head. I wonder if that is some watchtower taught trick he pulls.
The 1st question that I asked is about any proof of an apostasy.
The standard answer of 'yes, just look around' doesn't answer any questions.
dc
"...he will say or ask something rather indecipherable that has you just scratching your head."
Classic diversionary tactic. The dubs will rarely answer any truly controversial or confrontational question point-blank because 1) they know they don't really have the answer or 2) they realize that deep down, the answer makes them uncomfortable.
"How can you apostasize (apostatize?) from a "religion" that was never really a "religion" to begin with?"
Jesus IMHO did not come start a "religion". If anything, he came to free people from the shackles of religion by imparting timeless spiritual truths. There was a great deal of latitude of beliefs in the early church (before it was really even a "church" per se) and much more written material than people are led to believe. I think proto-Christianity was fairly elastic - definitely not a "religion" in the sense of what we would call "religious".
I agree that there is much more written material than people are led to believe, but that is because the false teachings had to be weeded out. Books like the gospel of Mary, the gospel of Judas and the gospel of Peter were deemed 'not of divine inspiration' There were many other rejected books also.
Another problem with the great apostasy theory is that it makes Jesus look like an idiot who couldn't get his church up and running. He spoke of the fool who built his house on sand and the house caved in. Seems pretty unlikely that he didn't follow his own advise. Jesus also promised that the gates of hell would never prevail against his church. That his church would stand for all generations.
dc
