Argh, this is just getting worse by the day

by teel 15 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  mindmelda

  I would try to get the emphasis of the relationship off of "you VS. Jehovah" because that's exactly the kind of martyrdom attitude that Witnesses are taught that should convince them they're special to God, and have the "Truth".

  I would put it on a level she will have to respond to if she is a "good" Witness, that the WTS asks that women respect their husbands, regardless of if they are worldy, disfellowshipped or inactive.

  Tell her the publications suggest that a woman spend an adequate amount of time with their husbands to facilitate a healthy marriage. Remind her that recreation is also recommended by the WTS to be a balanced Christian.

  If you're in a contest of wills with a Witness, my long experience tells me to use their own words to fight with. They constantly recommend being reasonable and not fighting, but being quietly persuasive with reason.

  Of course, you can't teach their BS with reason, because it's circular logic and not all that reasonable but that's what they think are the rules, so use their rules.

  I actually once did this in an elders meeting, kept writing down the "advice" the brothers were giving me about being reasonable (they love it when you take notes of what they say and what scriptures are used) and then when things got a little heated because I started asking questions that made them squirm and finally, pretty pissed, I just calmly read their words back to them.

  What could they say to that? "I was lying when I said that."?

  Your wife is a nice person, because nice people are the kind of people the WTS more easily sells on their ideas of peace and utopia. Everyone reasonable wants those things, duh.

  Just agree with her when possible and stop asking those "what if?" questions that are making her uncomfortable. You have to give someone a bridge to another reality where they feel somewhat secure before you can pull the foundation of their beliefs out from under them, regardless of how ridiculous those beliefs seem to you.

  Say and ask things that will gradually make her realize that there is more to existence that is pleasant and good and peaceful than JWs. That's what she wants, she's just looking for it in the wrong place.
• 

  fokyc

  Teel, So sorry for you, I am in my 56th year of feeling exactly the same.

  My wife was a doorstep convert in 1953, I tried so many things but nothing worked,

  I even tried joining and going to ALL the meetings, I just couldn't stand the lies.
• 

  teel

  Thank you everyone for your kind words. I am thinking of a marriage counselor, I think my wife would aggree to that. She visited a psychologist about 1 year ago, and she feels it helped her. I feel she is one of the persons who is actually better off in a cult then outside, and the psychologist only helped her achieve that to full potential - she says she's more dedicated to Jehovah because of those counseling sessions.

  What I'm afraid of is that the psychologists usually don't understand what a cult is like - as far as I understood from books like Hassan's, it's not part of their regular training. So he will only think of it as a matter of religious differences, and would not see the depth of the matter in fullest, having not experienced it firsthand. Nevertheless it's probably my only recourse right now.
• 

  Lozhasleft

  Teel...I want to hold out some hope to you...when you talk about your wife you could be talking about me a few years ago...I remember telling my kids 'if the elders said we should go to the hall in pink pyjamas then thats what we'd do'....I played the kingdom songs all the time and even on my keyboard....and even after leaving the org I couldnt see how they could be wrong...and I couldnt imagine ever thinking differently...but hey ho here I am...and I recently married an atheist too...

  Sadly I have many many regrets that I got involved in it at all..its cost me all my children...

  Loz x
• 

  nugget

  Teel seek out a counselor with knowledge of the cult experience. There are some out there and they will know how to address the issues. If you haven't read the Steve Hassan books then it would be good to do so. You will often find that if you challenge doctrine then you end up going around in circles. He talks about how to connect to the pre cult personality. It sounds as if there are opportunities to do that based on your wifes past experiences. Talk about past times, her hopes as a young girl and how her life might have been different. Talk about the rock concerts and what you enjoyed.

  It is also easier for people to see the flaws in other cults so talk about mormons and moonies and other high control groups. She is controlled by a group and needs to start thinking and finding the parrallels.

  Don't go for broke too quickly this takes time and sometimes it doesn't work. When it does it is worthwhile.
• 

  PrimateDave

  "Idolatry is revering and serving non-living entities and symbols as if they were alive and feeling beings. Idolatry is mistaking the symbol for Reality, putting the symbol above reality."

  This quote is from a blog that I like to follow: http://zerocurrency.blogspot.com/

  The author applies this to corporations,

  "You might notice that a few times I've denounced Wal Mart in this blog, and some people have become highly offended, as if I've blasphemed a living, breathing god. I've been noticing how folks who are offended when we call corporations bad names have no problem calling fellow human beings names and looking down on them. Go out and check it out for yourself: experiment in different crowds of people by denouncing the corporation of your choice, and see what I mean. It's a blasphemy to many Americans, right up there with flag burning."

  If we use his logic, then the Watchtower Corporations are actually idols for people who claim to be Jehovah's Witnesses. To openly criticize the Watchtower is considered an act of blasphemy greater than any other "sin" against Jehovah and Jesus (and the Holy Spirit, which apparently isn't all that important to Witnesses anyway).

  "What if we put Reality above symbol? What if we were as apalled about our rejecting our own ten commandments ("thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not covet" and "thou shalt not bear false witness") as we are upset about not getting to prop up inanimate plaques of the Ten Commandments on government property? What if we pledged allegiance to living beings instead of to a symbol? What if we were as upset about not keeping Jesus' teachings as we are about burning inanimate Bibles? What if the Word were a Living, Breathing Being, right here and now in the flesh, rather than a book or an unapproachable person who lived thousands of years ago"

  I don't know if that example would have any effect on your wife, though. I hope you both can get some help.